START DATE jULY 20, 2011

TODA'S DATE  February 22, 2012


page 146



NOTE:  I found out about this woman through an e-mail link to a series of  videos


part 1

part 2

part 3

part 4

part 5

part 6

part 7


part 10


NOTE:  I am acquainted with another woman who has been trying to get out of her Fathers/Uncles cult for many years so I know more about this insidious cult type event more than the videos reveal.  The woman I know lived also lived in California and was trained as a child even before birth, abused so much she had eight different personalities, all of which I communicated with.  Her Father also was a banker and was forced to flee the state in order to avoid arrest for wrongdoings.  She herself was a money runner when she was in her early 20's, but was used as a prostitute at Bohemian Grove from the age of eleven to age sixteen.  One of her little friends was killed when she said she was going to tell the authorities.  She tried desperately to get out of the cult and even moved to another state, but a deprogrammer on the internet turned out to be a programmer and alerted her relatives who came and brought her back into the fold.  Unfortunately, not all of her personalities wanted to be out of the cult and still followed the programming.  She was under psychiatric care by a psychiatrist who didn't understand satanic programming and she tried to commit suicide several times, had several abortions from pregnancies conceived in moon ceremonies.  Her programmer forced her to quit communicating with me, so I hope she is still alive and fighting the good fight.


 BOHEMIAN GROVE;  with photos:

MORE INFO:  (34 PAGES);_ylt=A0oGdUhNFEVPzTUAv2el87UF?






Missing - Where Is Svali?
By Ed Koni

Svali, a former mind control programmer and trainer for the Illuminati, appears to be missing or in hiding. Who is Svali and is her story of a pervasive conspiracy true? (story: http://
Back in the early 1990's, I was working in a large church in the greater San Diego, CA area, doing counseling with a pastor there. We had recently started working with abuse victims helping them to deal with the many problems they faced.
We were both new to this field, but were excited about the opportunity God had opened for us to help some of the many hurting people in the congregation.
It was a Wesleyan church, and we had the "silent blessing" of the head pastor to work with these people, as long as it was kept out of the limelight and no trouble came out of it. He didn't want the main body to be aware that we were working with people who had demonic problems and certainly there was not to be any talk of Satanic Ritual Abuse! No, that wouldn't go over well and might scare away half of the congregation.
Soon after word slowly got out that we were working to help people with "spiritual problems", we were contacted by another Wesleyan pastor from a nearby small, Wesleyan church. I will never forget what he asked me. He said, "I have a young couple at our church that I feel God has His hand upon them and wants to use them in ministry at our church. The woman though, has a few spiritual issues and I would like you guys to help her out." I responded, "Sure, let's all get together and pray about this and see how the Lord leads us."
We scheduled an appointment the following week. As soon as we met, I could see a real nervousness in the young woman. Her name was Svali. (Actually that is her alias she now goes by and I don't want to reveal her real name for the sake of her safety and privacy.)
We sat down and began to pray and all of a sudden Svali starts rapping her hand very strongly on the table. She looked at us and said "What! Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong!" She was extremely agitated inside and the demons were also. I could see she was in a strong state of denial and wanted to keep a lid on things. The demons didn't want us to meet and especially to pray together and they were pushing Svali the best they could to leave! Little did I know what was in store for us over the next several months, but surely this was a strong indicator of someone with much inner turmoil.
For the next 4-5 months I met with Svali and her husband on numerous occasions. I had never seen or heard of anyone like her before. She had so much pain inside, so many demons, so much programming and her denial system was incredibly strong.
Unfortunately, I didn't know a whole lot about the Illuminati and how they torture, abuse and program people at that time. I did the best I could to help Svali and in spite of my ignorance, lack of knowledge, and spiritual immaturity, God helped us mightily. We were able to make good headway with Svali and the Lord Jesus helped her break much of the denial system that was in place. This was only because Svali genuinely had a love for the Lord Jesus and for the truth. She desperately wanted to get free. Free from what, I didn't even know at that time as God didn't reveal much of her involvement in the cult at that time. Many alters did come out and get saved, and the Lord Jesus did cast out many demons for Svali. She was making progress but there was an incredible amount of things to deal with at that time.
Suddenly one day Svali turned on me, or so I thought at the time. An alter personality who had been a protector of some sort came out and started accusing me of many things. I was aghast and very hurt as I had always tried my best to help her. I had always given Svali priority because her situation seemed so dire. She had two small children to take care of, worked full time as a nurse in the emergency room of a major San Diego hospital, and was trying to deal with all of what God was bringing out into the light.
I thought she was going to snap from all the pressure she was facing and in a way she did. She did a compete 360 on me and was very combative. I was very confused. She soon left town in a hurry and moved to Texas and I heard nothing from her or her husband any more.
Years later, I found some of Svali's articles on and as I read them I was amazed to see all she had been through! Many of the things that happened in our ministry time together now made sense. It was her Illuminati programming that had made her denial system so strong. The alters we encountered in her were so very hurt and very controlled. I knew whomever had been involved in her abuse had to be very sophisticated and the spiritual attack we faced when working with Svali was always very strong. Someone out there didn't want what was inside of her to be revealed and they certainly didn't want her to be free.
I soon was able to track down Svali through her articles and was able to call her and talk in person with her. I was so relieved to see she was not only still walking with the Lord but she was working very diligently on her healing and also was being very vocal about her past involvement in the Illuminati.
I cautioned her about that. She knew the risks involved though, more than I did, and she insisted on writing and speaking out about the activities of the cult. She was very brave, very outspoken, and as far as I can tell, very truthful in what she stated. Nothing I ever read went against what I knew to be true about her.
I kept in touch with her by email and tried to encourage her and support her in whatever way I could. I consider Svali a true sister in the Lord. One who truly loved the Lord Jesus and was ready to die for Him. I know though she was motivated by her hatred for the evil things the cult did to people, especially the children. I think also she felt very guilty for what she had done in the past while in the cult even though she knew God had forgiven her. She had a true hatred of what they do, as God also does, but that hatred may now have cost her very life.
I know the cult did constantly harass her and warn her about speaking out and that she was abducted, abused and strongly admonished to keep quiet. I was alerted last year by someone who knew Svali that she was no longer answering any emails sent to her and that no one knew where she was. I have searched for her myself and tried to contact her but no one has seen or heard of where Svali is. I tried emailing Svali, to no avail.
Also, her web site has been stripped of all her articles and just meaningless links remain. The owner of the web site is someone in Kingstown, VC?? All her artwork, poems and articles are gone. I doubt Svali would take all that down, but who knows.
I hope and pray she is okay. She was very brave to speak out as she did, but she knew the risk involved. Yes, she had two children, a boy and a girl, and they would be about high school age now. I have no idea where they are.
I am hoping and praying that this dear sister is okay and that she hasn't been kidnapped or killed. Please pray for her safety and if anyone knows of her whereabouts, please let me know.
Ed Koni is the pseudonym of a San Diego man who can be reached at:
You can read Svali's amazing writings about the inner workings of the Illuminati and other articles on abuse issues at the following locations:

About Svali
Svali used to be a programmer and trainer in the cult of the Illuminati.

Both she and her entire family were involved in the cult group until several years ago, when they finally broke free. She has been a consultant to an on-line survivors group that helps people dealing with issues related to cult programming and ritual abuse.

Svali, a writer and a registered nurse, has self-published a book on breaking free of cult programming, which several experts in the field have said has "invaluable information" for the survivor of ritual abuse.

Christmas in the Cult

© Svali
Articles in this Topic Discussions in this Topic

Dec 23, 2001

Christmas is a time when people think warmly of family gathered around the Christmas tree, sharing laughter as presents are opened and sleepy-eyed children excited see what Santa has brought. Adults share egg nog and cheer, and happy traditions are followed.

But for the child raised in a generational satanic cult, Christmas has a very different meaning. In the daytime, the normal activities of shopping for presents and going to parties occurs, and the family may have a large “warm” gathering of its members in the day.

But at night, things are quite different. The child who in the daytime looks forward to Santa and presents under the day, quakes with terror at the thought of what will come at night.

The winter solstice occurs on December 21, and this is one of the highest pagan/Celtic holidays, since the “New Year” begins after this date for the cult. Special ceremonies are planned to ensure the coming of a new year filled with power, and the return of the sun’s lengthening days (many occult ceremonies are also based on ancient sun deity worship). Added to this is the Christian holiday in celebration of Christ’s birth, which the occult group despises, and special ceremonies are planned to desecrate and twist the meaning of this day. For many families in the occult, the whole week from December 21 to December 26 is filled with activities, since family members are naturally gathered together, and there is no need to explain missed days from school for the children.

The cruelty surrounding Christmas and the solstice is intense. Children are often abused by cult members dressed as Santa; or a mocking of the nativity occurs with the end result that “Herod” succeeds in slaying the baby Jesus (with ritual murder of an infant occurring). The child may be sexually abused under a Christmas tree, and paraphernalia of the holiday are given a new and dark meaning.

Instead of a celebration of birth, Christmas for the child raised in a cult family becomes a time of horror and death. Programming may occur, with images associated with the holiday implanted, and the child told that seeing these images (such as a lighted Christmas tree, or nativity scene) will mean contact with “family” or other messages placed in under trauma.

Children (and adults) may receive presents with hidden meanings that remind them of Christmas past and the trauma that is meant to bind them to “family”.

A mock “holiday feast” may occur, but instead of egg nog and ham, the meal is gruesome.

These are just a few of the associations that occur in the dissociated alters of the child raised in a cult family, and why many survivors feel a mixture of anticipation and fear when the holidays come around. Added to this, once the child grows up, intense efforts by cult family members to recontact will occur during these holiday times at which all family members are expected to be present.

Panic and anxiety can occur for the adult survivor on these anniversary dates of intense trauma and rituals, and they may wonder why a holiday that is associated with good cheer for them means the desire to hide and cower.

It can help if the survivor learns for themselves where the panic is coming from, and which triggers were placed in. This usually will occur in therapy, or from journaling.

If a survivor has stopped contact with family members, then receives a flood of Christmas cards or gifts, they should be cautious, and aware that these items could be intensely triggering. A desire to “call and recontact” family members will often be awakened as a result, and the survivor will need to work through this in therapy.

Child alters often hold the most horrific memories, and listening to them, allowing them to process their trauma and fears in therapy, journaling, and art work can also help.

Creating new holiday traditions that feel safe can also help. Some survivors celebrate Christmas by doing things very differently than their family of origin to help reinforce that they are able to break free of all the traditions that their family held. And having outside support and safety help most of all during this time.

Christmas is an especially difficult time for many survivors. But as adults, survivors can choose to break free from the traumatic meanings it once held, and to create a safe Christmas for themselves


Published on: July 9, 2001
at by: Svali Waldrop

Near Death Programming

(**note: the content of this article discusses traumatic programming in some detail, and could be very triggering to survivors who have undergone this type of abuse. If you are a survivor, please do not read unless you are with a safe person, or with your therapist)

This is part of an ongoing series on complex programming that I am writing as an outline for a sequel to my first book, “Breaking the Chain”. In this article, I will be discussing one of the most traumatic forms of programming that a survivor can undergo. This programming involves the use of Near Death Experiences.

The Illuminati have studied human neurophysiology for years, and the effects of traumatic conditioning on the human brain and psyche. In their search for better and more reliable methods of ingraining programming, they have utilized research from a variety of sources: governmental agencies; totalitarian regimes, and their own experimentation that is ongoing on a continuous (and secretive) basis.

But some of the foundations for this type of programming have been in place for centuries. One of the oldest rituals that the Illuminati utilize is the “resurrection ceremony”. In fact the Phoenix, symbol of death and new life, is one of their highest symbols and symbolizes the coming of the New Order and its leader.

How is resurrection programming done, or its variations? I will share what I have undergone and/or witnessed.

A young child of around two or three will be very heavily traumatized during an occult ceremony. They will be abused, beaten, shocked and even suffocated, and given drugs to create a state that is near death. The child will almost always at this point feel that they are suspended above their body, watching the unconscious body beneath that has been tortured to the point of being near death.

There will always be medical personnel involved in programming at this depth, who are skilled at monitoring the child’s physical state, and of resuscitating them. Resuscitation equipment and medications are on hand at all times.

The child in this extremity will have their deepest core called out at this point, and brought to consciousness in extreme pain. They will then be told that they have a “choice”: to face certain death, or to choose life if they will invite a powerful demon inside. The child chooses life. The demon enters, the child goes unconscious, and then awakens later in clean clothing, in a soft bed, with healing ointments on. They are extremely weak and shaky, and are told by a kind, caring, soft voiced woman (or man) that the child had died, but the demon “brought them back to life”, that they owe their very life and heart beat to it and those who “saved them”. The child is also told that if they ask the demonic entity to leave, that they will revert to the near death/dying state they were in when it made its entrance.

This is one type of near death experience used to control and terrify a very young child, and to force it to accept a demonic spirituality under the most traumatic and coercive circumstances imaginable. The child feels marked and chosen for life by this experience, and it profoundly influences the child’s core beliefs about him/herself and their deepest reality. It is also one of the most horrible manipulations of a young child that can occur, and is designed to take away their free choice or will.

Another form of near death programming will occur in a situation that has often been called “governmental mind control” but which I always viewed as linked to the Illuminati programming (since the trainers/scientists in each crossed over from one to the other and shared information).

For example, at Tulane Medical Center, nearby, was a place known as the “Institute”. The Institute was involved in experimentation in mind control techniques put in under the most extreme circumstances, including at the point of near physical death. For some of this programming, a “subject” (how I hate that word, used by trainers to emotionally distance themselves from the fact that this was a human being, with feelings and emotions being worked on) would be in a hospital ward, isolated from others by blank grey white walls. The subject was tied down by four points, and also across the waist and neck. They were then wrapped in a cocoon like manner with soft gauze, to limit movement or any feeling or sensation in the limbs. Usually, “subjects” were fed intravenously, and then underwent severe sensory deprivation, broken by bombardment with extremely loud noises. A darkened room would be broken by glaring white lights in the middle of the night, and the “subject” loses orientation of night or day.

The subject, when near breaking, is then shocked heavily and drugged. They may be placed temporarily on a respirator, and given paralytic drugs. The anxiety level reaches extreme points as this abuse continues, and I had heard of people literally having a heart attack from fear at this point. The person is drugged and shocked again, and then told that they are dying. They watch their body from above, and are actually glad that finally release will come from the days of torment at this place.

At this point, a trainer with a kind, soothing voice will come in and repetitiously say, “You deserve to live, I won’t let you die. You owe your life to me.” Recorded messages are also played over and over, repetitiously, at this point, which describe the “subjects” future destiny for “family”, etc. Finally, slowly, the subject is allowed to awaken, to come out of unconsciousness, with the constant message of being “reborn” for the “family group” being played. Kind faced people soothe the subject as they recover from this hideously traumatic programming sequence. The person feels insanely grateful to be alive, to be released from the horrors of the days when they lay near death in the Institute, and will cling like a preverbal child to the adults around them. They are extremely vulnerable at this point, and extremely receptive to the messages placed in under trauma. I should know. I was a “subject’ at the Institute as a child in the 1960’s and early 1970’s, and later visited as an adult as a “consultant”.

This is deep level programming put in under extreme circumstances, and the fear level for the survivor when they begin to remember this type of trauma can be extremely high. I wish I could whitewash it, say that it isn’t this bad, but it is. I know that this may stretch the believability of some people, but this type of programming really, truly occurs (along with other types of sophisticated mind control methods). Near death programming has many variations, and I have only touched on two (there are other forms as well).

Programming put in when in a near death state will be at core level, since the survival level at that point touches the person’s core, no matter how well protected. The person who has undergone it may believe that if they try to break it, they might die. That they will enter a near death state. That their heart will stop. I went through all of these fears, and more, when dealing with this type of programming inside, and to this day I struggle at times with the residual terror it left. The lies ground in at this almost unconscious state will be believed deeply at a core level, since the child undergoing it is desperately needing to believe the adults who literally hold the power of life and death over them. The child has been completely broken down by the planned, horrific trauma, and will embrace these messages at their deepest core as being true.

This is why core beliefs and messages are so very hard to undo at this level. It means excellent support, a safe environment, and spiritual awareness and discernment, since the demonic stronghold will also be severe at this point. Help from a therapist knowledgable about programming, and spiritual help from those who know about deliverance, is a vital part of therapy at this point. The survivor who reaches this level of programming inside will have reached core level. The programming will be some of the most deeply held and believed, and will be almost impossible to reach at a conscious level, until there is deep system cooperation and safety and trust in the outside people helping the survivor. This is also where faith in God, and His ability to heal ANYTHING, including the most severe of physical, emotional, and spiritual traumas, will make all the difference.

This type of programming may need to be worked on in a safe inpatient setting, or with extreme safety externally, since fear may cause panic and acting out when it begins to come out. Reality orientation may be lost for a bit as the programming sequences surface, and it will take the strength of the entire system to help slow the memories down and make them manageable. Medication will probably also be needed, to help with the severe sense of depression, loss, abandonment, and betrayal that this type of programming will bring out. Despair over choices made, and wondering if the survivor can survive remembering will come up. A hopeful, supportive, nurturing, and encouraging attitude can make the difference. Scripture verses that remind the person of God’s love and ability to heal, of His care, and promises of forgiveness and caring, will be very important.

Breaking this type of programming is immensely tiring and plenty of rest and nutritious food is important. This is NOT the time to take on extra stressors. Allowing the survivor to vent their fear, reassuring them, praying with them, and caring for them will become a lifeline. Hearing their rage at what was done as they discuss the “SOBs who did this to me” will be healing, and don’t rush them towards premature or false forgiveness. The survivor will have to look at and acknowledge the trauma, the damage, and then find hope that they are surviving the remembering of core trauma. Bringing in gentle, nontaxing good experiences such as a playtime, drawing, or a nature walk can be healing. Outlets such as journaling and talking about how they feel will be very important in processing this type of programming.

The European Roots of the Illuminati-

by Svali

Published on: October 6, 2000

Until recently, I have mainly written about programming and methods to work through and attempt to resolve it. But as I am working on my own healing, I am coming to realize that while breaking programming is important (and often life-saving), that eventually it becomes important to deal with core issues. Core issues go beneath and behind programming, and often not only drive it, but sabotage the therapy process as the survivor attempts to heal.

These issues will be different for each survivor, since we each have a unique history. I have received emails from survivors from around the world, and have found that: *The Illuminati is certainly not the only occult group in the world; there are many other well-organized groups that do methodic, repetitive abuse of an occult nature. But in these groups, often the core issues are different than for the Illuminati *Even within the Illuminati, each individual will need to discover their own personal history, since parentage, bloodlines, and programming methods will differ, as well as the child’s eventual role in the group. This article is not meant to address all methods, or all survivor’s histories in the group.

I can’t speak for everyone who was abused in the group; I can only speak of what I myself am discovering about my own personal history, in the hopes that it will help other survivors through either validation, or to help supporters better understand some of the issues that they face during the process of remembering and healing.

The Illuminati are based in Europe, which is where their power base has always been. I remember being told as a young child that America was basically considered their “mission field” or the “land of opportunity” by those whose roots extend for hundreds of years or more into the ancient European dynastic bloodlines.

This is why their power hierarchy around the world, whether in the U.S., Asia, Australia, Canada, or elsewhere will always point back to Europe, where the 13 rulers (they also call them “lords”) are based. Each ruler represents an area of Europe held under his sway; and each one represents an ancient dynastic bloodline.

For example, the Hapsburg bloodline (Merovingian) is still active in Europe, although hidden, as well as the Rothschild and Battenberg bloodlines . In many modern European countries, the heirs of these bloodlines are immensely wealthy, and secretly are the “power behind the throne”, if not the actual rulers.

This is one reason why those of high Illuminati rank/descent in the U.S., for example, can always trace their bloodline or parentage to members of this ruling cabal in Europe; members of leadership councils in the States are always direct descendants, whether legitimate or illegitimate.

Whether at the lowest levels, or the highest, though, this group operates with the same methods: instilling intense fear and terror to control their members. Often this is done through the fear of death, and at the core level, the person who has undergone their training will have an immense fear of dying because of the “death and resurrection” experiences, or near death experiences, that they have undergone.

During these experiences, the very young child or even infant core will be faced with intolerable choices: to allow themselves to be extinguished, or to embrace the demonic and the beliefs of those in their bloodline parentage. I believe this is dissociation at its deepest level, since the desire to survive is one of the deepest instincts that God has given us, and will override intellect, cognition, and even well-thought out beliefs in an adult-much less in a very young child. When faced with certain death and terror, or life, albeit at a price that is much too high, the infant or child almost always chooses life (I have never heard of one that hasn’t to date, although my own knowledge and experience are limited).

Then the one who offers life to the infant becomes their “savior”, and worshipped virtually as a deity in the child’s mind and heart for “saving” them in one of the most wicked set ups imaginable.

In many cases, this is one of the child’s parents, and most often, their biological father. The biological father may not be the person that the child consciously remembers raising them during childhood; and once again, this encourages deep dissociation: the consciously remembered “Daddy” may not be the survivor’s real father.

Identity confusion is also layered in. The name the child goes by during the daytime may be quite different from their “real” name, or even the name on their birth certificate. A child of high lineage may discover that they weren’t born in the United States, but in Europe, if the ties to the European bloodlines are great enough; or even that their American birth certificate was forged, to cover their European one.

Each situation is different, and different bloodlines practice different methods of raising, mentoring, and training their offspring. For instance, those of German descent may be taken to Germany, and spend time with those of this bloodline learning the ways of this country, and developing a loyalty to what they consider their “true homeland”, before going back to another country to live under a different identity. Because above all else, children are called back to their European roots at frequent intervals to develop loyalty to their family home and name, and to undergo ceremonies meant to instill terror and ongoing cooperation, alternated with loving bonding experiences meant to instill deep love for the parental figures.

A child may live in Japan, but they will always know that their true home is in Germany or France; the child in Canada may know that their true home is the U.K., or Russia, and the child in the U.S. will long to return to “home” in Europe with the loyalty that is instilled, whether “home” is Germany, Bavaria, France, Moscow, the UK, Spain, or another country ruled by one of the 13.

This terror, this training, and the bonds of not only loyalty, but caring and nurturing that the child experienced through their true parentage, are often the most difficult and insidious to break. Deep terror combined with loving rescue and nurture create deep loyalty through trauma bonding, and breaking these ties at the core level is the most difficult task that many survivors face.

My prayer is that by explaining some, it can help others know that this does occur, which is the first step to uncovering it and working on it. I believe that deep prayer and support from others are the only methods of both uncovering these ties, and of breaking their hold. I am still working on these issues, and welcome others to share their experiences of undoing the hold of loyalty at this core level to the original perpetrators, and of breaking the spiritual and emotional ties to them. I will be more than happy to publish here anonymously any articles on this topic, as an encouragement to others who are breaking ties to the power centers in Europe. Because, ultimately, these men must lose in their bid for power. Scripture tells us that there is only one king on the throne: Jesus Ch
rist, and that eventually, even the European roots of the Illuminati and their coming “prince” or antichrist, will be cut down, when Christ reigns over the earth.

Blessings to you, Svali

by: Svali
Q: I'm very concerned about the New World Order scheme and my questions are meant to help me find possible ways to proceed in helping to defeat the scheme.

A: I know I sound cynical, but good luck! I really do wish you the best in this. I believe that it would take a LOT of people joining together, with immense wealth and excellent lawyers, to stop them.

I personally do not have any experience with any groups dedicated to stopping them, since I live in a small rural community and have no contacts of this nature. I do wish any groups dedicated to stopping this horrific abuse of small children the very best, and will pray that they succeed. But this is also a spiritual battle, and anyone who takes on this type of occult evil would also need to be aware of spiritual warfare. The Illuminists certainly use it against others, and anyone stepping into this arena without prayer would be very vulnerable, in my opinion.

Q: Have you considered starting a 12 step group like AA for ritual abusers and cult victims? I know from personal experience that the spiritual 12 step program works.

A: I believe that there are already groups such as this out there. I know that there are AA groups for incest survivors, and many also have branched off into RA [Ritual Abuse] support as well. Since I live in a rural area (population 100 unless you count the squirrels and cows), I would not be close enough to lead any groups such as this. They are usually found near large metropolitan areas. In fact, I drive two hours once a month to therapy, since that is the closest to where I live.

Q: Were you allowed to read and listen to what you wanted while you were in the Illuminati, or was everything censored? If it wasn't censored, it seems like members could notice that Illuminati teachings about betrayal being a human attribute are false. Right?

A: Wrong. I was never censored what I read, but you have to understand their mind set. As a small child, my parents told me that everyone was secretly a member of this group, and that the daytime was a "facade" or "pretense' that all maintain.

They would take me to friends' houses for dinner, and afterwards a ritual would occur, so I believed them. I grew up since infancy believing that this was just how the world operated for all: people act one way in the daytime, another at night. I knew that there was mention of love, caring, and trust in books, but believed it was a "daytime" quality, and that the people who wrote of these things were writing from their daytime personas.

There was a complete and utter division between day and night from my first days of life. To question something, you have to be able to step outside it, and I never had the maturity, or any reason to question the teachings, until I was much older. Think about it. All around were movies reinforcing what the cult taught, the Disney films, etc; I listened to heavy metal groups, whose values echoed what I was taught at night. In fact, outside of Christian literature, there is not much out there that would engender trust in other human beings.

Q: I was shocked to hear you say you were forced to shoot a friend of yours. Are many members forced to shoot or kill someone, or is this just for punishment training? Is it just outsiders who are killed? Are you able to discuss the shooting, or is this too hard to discuss?

A: The friend was not an outsider, she was part of the group, and considered expendable. In this group, people are one of two things: "useful" or "expendable". Everyone works quite hard to be useful. It is not a common punishment, in fact rare, but my mother was an unusually driven and ambitious person.

She was a head trainer, and sat on the regional council over the Washington DC area in the spiritual seat (the other seats on the council were military, held by her boss at the Pentagon, where she worked, his cult name was "Ashtoth", a goverment seat, leadership, scholarship, and sciences seats).

Usually, they bring in outsiders for rituals or killing, but this was an unusually harsh punishment to teach me an unforgettable lesson (it did: I never made a friend after that. I didn't like those higher than me, and had no wish to make friends with those she considered "worthy" of a "leader" and other nonsense).

Very rarely, in military exercises, those who were weak or kept a unit behind consistently were shot to teach the others a lesson (I saw it happen once). This never happened to the children of leaders, only those from lower levels.

Q: You say you begged God for a better home every night, but became embittered against God for not providing it. Were you praying to a benevolent God or to the Illuminati god? If the former, then where did you get your idea of a benevolent God?

A: This is a great question. I was NOT praying to the Iluminati deities, because to me, they were cruel and sadistic and frightening. I was praying to my child's concept of a good God, from my reading, watching of TV, and also the innate knowledge that all children have in their hearts that somewhere, up there, is a good God.

I also had a few experiences with angels, and being protected as a child during horrendous trauma, and this also formed my concept that good existed. They never actually tried to stop me from praying, since positive spirituality gives hope, and can help prevent suicide.

In fact, I was forbidden to read about or seek any knowledge about the occult in my day life, because otherwise too much would be given to the occult and the risk of suicide would have increased. They are believers in "balance', even in this area.

Q: You said "Papa Brogan" [see previous article] was the only kind adult in your life growing up. Do you mean he showed you affection? In what way?

A: Dr. Timothy Brogan was a professor at George Washington University. He was a specialist in neuropsychology, and one of the top Illuminati trainers in the DC area. He was also close friends with Sidney Gottlieb (another of my mother's "friends").

Anyway, he could be very kind as well as cruel. He would hold me on his lap, call me his "little one", and praised me highly when I did well. He taught me chess, and would read works of literature to me. He told me I was his "adopted daughter" and that he was proud of me. We would hold intellectual discussions until late at night, and he imparted his views of leadership and training to me. Not all Illuminati activity is cruel or inhumane; he could be caring and loving as well. I would play with his children, who were older than me, and he would patiently answer my questions about science, geography, and other topics. I bonded completely to him, which made the torture and sexual abuse especially painful and betraying.

Q: You say you had a core split, over 7,000 fragments and 16 internal systems. You mean you developed split personalities who weren't aware of each other? If so, did any of these personalities seem to have a fairly nice life?

A: Yep, split personalities. Most of the people I knew in the Illuminati were fairly fragmented (in fact, I cannot think of anyone who was not dissociative to some degree). Even the local and regional leaders all come in for regular "programming tune ups" as Jonathan and I used to call them. The largest split was between the front and back; ie. daily life and night life. Most, but not all, of the night alters could communicate, or at least the controllers and the higher parts inside could (and relay information to those beneath them). And yes, many of my personalities had a wonderful life. I had 140 created to deal with daytime life, such as work, friends, and fun (who have coalesced).

Many of my back people had good experiences, such as the ones I described above with Dr. Brogan. Others were pampered and praised, told that I would be a leader in the coming "New Order'' (of course, they tell everyone that....). I was to be a mediator between governmental figures in different nations because of my language abilities and people mediation skills. Many of my internal parts were quite proud of their abilities and accomplishments in the group, and grieved heavily when I left.

Q: Are the non-German Illuminists not Nazis, racist white supremacists, or genocidal maniacs? And, if the leadership in all countries is Illuminati, that must mean they're of all races, which seems to mean the white supremacists oppose the non-white Illuminati. Is this right?

A: Not all Illuminist groups are as fanatically anti-racial as the German branch is, although many are. These people are racist in the extreme, but they are also very practical, and realize that world domination is not possible without the aid of non-white races. That is why loyal figures in these countries are being promised leadership positions for their area, under the supervision of Illuminist commanders.

They also view orientals differently than other nonwhite races, because of the long history of occult mysticism in many countries (such as Tibet, for example), the long history of culture, and the high intelligence. This is why the oriental branches are highly regarded, even in Europe. But they do believe that Europe will be the center of world government and leadership.

Even in non-white countries, the top leadership is still white, or nearly so. For example, in South America, the top leaders are European in descent, with less of the mestizo mixing. In Africa, many of the leaders behind the scenes are whites, although there are local black leaders who have demonstrated extreme loyalty. They are using them, though, since these members will never be able to hold top leadership in the world. (Those positions are already taken).

All this said, I believe that the racist and hateful policies of the Illuminati are despicable in the extreme. One of my biggest quarrels with leadership was this position, among others. I hope this has answered some of your questions.



Q & A: Svali Answers Readers' Questions

by: Svali
Q: Can the Illuminati's family trees be traced back to specific towns in Europe?

A: Yes, and this depends on the branch. There is the German branch, the French branch, the UK branch, and the Russian branch. Each has roots in different areas of Europe. The towns of central Germany and Austria were the beginning for the German branch. They trace their roots from the Knights Templar who united the European nations during the crusades.

Q: Do they consider the Christian God real, but a liar?

A: The Illuminati believe in the deification of men through knowledge. They know that there are supernatural beings who help them in this process, but they don't necessarily divide things into "good and bad", rather "enlightened" or "unenlightened". They believe that the Christian God is real, but that adherents of Christianity are one step short of enlightenment, that they do not know the "full picture" as they do. They see Christians as sheep who follow a nice story created to help them feel better, because they are "too weak" to want to know the "full truth". (This is what an illuminist would say in describing the difference). They tend to be cynical towards the Christian God, to see him as a placebo for the weak.

Q: Do they consider their own god a liar, even if for "good"? If so, how do they trust their god?

A: They do not consider their gods (they have several) as liars. These "gods" have given them power, wealth, status, and everything that they have asked for. Yes, at a price, a horrible price, but they believe that nothing comes cheaply, and the higher the price they have paid, the more they value the gift. It is hard to explain this type to thinking to someone outside the group, because mainstream society wants to see them as evil satanists, and opposed to Christianity. They themselves wouldn't put it quite that way. Oh, they will mock and downgrade Christianity, but only because they want its followers to see that they are the 'deceived ones". The god of this world has truly blinded their eyes. Do they "trust" their gods? As much as they trust anything. Remember, trust is not a concept in this group, where "betrayal is the greatest good" is a maxim taught since childhood. If you asked them, do you"trust" your deity, they would look puzzled, and say, "only a foolish person trusts what they cannot know" or some other maxim.

Q: Do they consider the Christian God to be a God of naive love?

A: Yes, yes, very naive, and setting His followers up for a fall. This is the extent of their arrogance.

Q: If they use torture and terror on those they love who are of lower rank, how do they distinguish between love and hate?

A: They don't. They tell their children as they are torturing them, "I am doing this because I love you." To them, the greatest love is to make a child strong, and fit to lead or to move higher in the group, by whatever means it takes.

If a leader sees a child, and wants it as a prostitute, the loving parents will give it away, happy that their child will rise in status. Also, again, they view betrayal as the greatest good. They will do set up after set up to teach their children to never openly trust others.

I remember hundreds of agonizing set ups and betrayals, and hearing when I was betrayed or wounded, "And such is the heart of man." Those doing this to me thought they were teaching me something of value, that would help me. And because of the vicious and political nature of the group, in one sense they were right; the naive get stepped on and wounded. I have known parents who tried to spare their children some of this out of love, but often they were overuled by other family members, who viewed these parents as "weak" and "unfit" to teach their child.

Q: Can you list their religious beliefs in some detail? e.g. re-incarnation? Heaven and hell? Sin? Absolution? Elves?

A: Which part? Spiritual has many branches, including: celtic druidism, rosicrucianism, Babylonian mystery religion, Egyptian mysteries, and traveling the planes. A child will have to learn each of these disciplines, and others, as part of their training. They also have theta, or psychic training, as well.

The Illuminati have taken the best (or worst) of each of these religions, and incorporated them. Also, there is NOT just ONE religion that every group follows. In Washington DC, my main trainers were celtic druids and adherents of babylonian mystery religion. In San Diego,the Egyptian mystery religion is emphasized, in part because Col. Aquinos oversees that group, and is heavily into Temple of Set.

Here is a brief overview, doing my best to incorporate these beliefs. They believe that reincarnation is possible, because of the time travel that they do, but they don't emphasize it in their teachings. They believe in a final sphere of white light, which to them is total enlightenment, and their concept of heaven. They believe that they are immune from hell, which is for the unenlightened. Their concept of hell is different than the Bible's; they believe that it means being lower and never reaching higher in the afterlife (they believe there are levels there, too, determined by how one progresses here on earth).

To them, sin is being weak or stupid, and not using the intelligence or abilities you were given, or failing to progress. I never heard any discussion of absolution. If you fail, you are punished or killed. That simple. There is some belief in elves, sprites, and other small beings in the druidic branch, who also see life in each of nature's creations.

Q: Some researchers claim that various items that people are commonly exposed to in society are part of the means to weaken their enemies. Therefore, I wonder if the Illuminati allow their own leading members to be exposed to these, i.e. the following:
a. chlorine and fluoride in water and foods;
b. vaccines;
c. medical drugs;
d. junk food;
e. microwaved food;
f. dietary supplements;
g. biochips;
h. mercury fillings;
j. chemtrails?

A: In general, true leadership is protected from much of the above. They are ORDERED to not: drink, do drugs, or anything harmful to themselves. They don't go as far as junk food or microwaved food, since they don't worry about that, but at meetings, healthy food such as granola or trail mix are given out during exercises, and they know the importance of good nutrition.

They will NOT put their top leaders through the extensive use of mind control experimentation, or implants, etc. because of the risk involved. These children and adults ARE dissociative, but they go through a special program that is different than for the lower levels. They do get vaccines, since even if the child became ill, a healer could fix them. And they do take medications if needed, such as antibiotics, etc.

Do they claim to use vaccines or medical drugs for genocide? I had not heard that when I was in the group. Everyone I knew was vaccinated and took medications, although vitamins and good diet were also important.

Q: Some claim that Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Charismatics, Pagans, the New Age Movement, Satanists, etc. were founded by the same plotters. Are these groups, or at least their leaders, considered allies of the Illuminati by their members?

A: Some of these groups have affiliated themselves secretly with the Illuminati (because of the money and free training offered), others are sympathetic, or at the least, respectful of them. The Mormons affiliated years ago in a meeting with Illuminati leadership in the 1950s. The same with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have not heard that Charismatics or Pagans were affiliated, the pagans are considered "dabblers" by the Illuminati. The New Age and Satanists are sympathetic to them.

Q: Do they respect real science or history in favor of "faith" in their own beliefs?

A: No. They will respect science, but they will try to rewrite history in set ups and dramas for children (where they purport to show them "real history" behind the scenes). Also, they will do time travel through portals, but I cannot say how accurate what occurs is, since I believe it is facilitated demonically.

The Illuminati teach their children that powerful occultists who were enlightened have been secretly behind the thrones of Europe, and down the ages behind the kingdoms of this world, since time began. True or propaganda? I don't know. They teach their children that underneath Stonehenge there is a great room filled with the skeletons of sacrifices. Fact or fiction? I don't know, and cannot fund the archeological expedition it would take to verify this or not.

How accurate their teachings are, I do question, since they also leave out the role of faith in God, and His ability to hold back evil. I believe that ultimately, God has been in control of human history, not evil.


I have described some of the most viciously traumatic programming that can be done to a child or young teen in this group. It is possible to work it through, slowly, with time and caring support and prayer. My wish in discussing this has not been to be gory or graphic, but to help others understand that this type of programming does occur, and may need to be worked through by the survivor of occultic/ritualistic abuse.

Copyright © 1996-2001, Inc., All rights reserved.


While running our series 'The Illuminati: How the Cult Programs People' we received a few emails that were of somewhat sceptical nature and/or requesting more information.

Needless to say I had some questions of my own regarding some details of the Illuminati and their agenda, and so I got in touch with 'Svali' (her pseudonym), an Ex-Illuminati Programmer/Trainer, to find out more about her claims.

In the following few episodes I will enlighten you (pardon the pun), as much as I can, with additional knowledge I received from her.

Our correspondence took place in the form of an email interview, which I left mainly intact. I only edited it for spelling and punctuation; minus some personal information addressed to me.

Should you have any additional questions you would like to ask Svali, please email me at and I will forward them to her for a possible future article.

HJ Springer
chief editor

Following is the first part of our interview:

Dear Mr. Springer,

Thank you for contacting me. Actually, I just received a somewhat skeptical email today from someone who read the information at your site.

I would be more than happy to answer questions about validity, etc. with the following provision. I write under a pen name to protect my two children and husband, whom I do not want to have receiving hostile or threatening phone calls, etc. My two children are still healing from the experiences of being raised in the group as well, and I don't want any experiences that could traumatize them.

The topic I am addressing is somewhat volatile, to say the least. People have strong emotions pro and con as to whether the Illuminati are real. That said, I will give you a little background info, feel free to share this with readers. Also, my column at (I have a column on ritual abuse; do a search on 'svali') has numerous articles on this topic if people want to learn more.

1. I was born in 1957 in Alexandria, Virginia. I lived briefly in a small town about an hour away from Washington, DC, then moved to a 500 acre farm in northern Virginia when my mother married my stepfather. Both my mother and my stepfather were members of this group. It is a very generational group. My mother sat on the regional council over the Washington, DC area and was in the "spiritual chair" (the Illuminati have 6 chairs on their ascended masters council: Sciences, Government, Leadership, Scholarship, Spiritual, and Military.)

These also correlate to the areas that children are taught growing up in this group. They believe in "well rounded" children. The "spiritual" rituals, or occult rituals, were only one small part of the teaching of this group, the other five areas are also equally emphasized. I spent more time learning history, languages, and sciences than I did seeing rituals, although they were important to the group.

2. I went to school in Charlottesville, Va. 1975 to 1981, where I received a BSN in nursing, and a BA in Spanish ( I got two degrees). This is also a place where a lot intense abuse and occultic crime occurred, on an estate about 10 miles south west of Charlottesville going towards Crowley, Virginia.

3. After graduation, I went to San Diego in 1981 ( I was called there by the leadership there, they were strong in military training but weak in sciences, which was my forte). I came and sat on leadership council, I was the sixth head trainer there (the lowest head trainer) and had 30 trainers in the local groups reporting to me. Leadership council met in Ramona, Ca. on an estate there that belonged to a man named Jonathan Meiers.

When I went to the police in 1996 (after I had left the group) sure enough, there was an estate there belonging to someone with that name. One of his cult names was "Black Hand" because he wore black gloves when he worked with people. He was the head trainer in the group, and one of the most sadistic and brutal people I ever knew. He burned out most of the trainers that worked with him, and I made it because I had a friend on leadership council who hated him and helped me undermine him (the Illuminati are a very political and back stabbing group, a "dog eat dog" mentality; everyone wants to move up ). Her cult name was Athena.

After years (12) of working with Jonathan, I moved up to the second head trainer position in the county. Jonathan was getting ready to move to regional, and he wanted me to take his place. But he and I also despised each other, and he set me up to take a fall. That's a whole different story, and was one of the factors that made me leave the group.

I left the group in 1995, sick of the lying, deceiving, and politics, and fearful for my life. I fled to Texas, and went through therapy with Dr. Jerry Mundgaze and his group. But unfortunately, they didn't know how to help "deprogram me", or as Dr. Mundgaze told me, "you are higher than almost anyone we have seen, and more programmed."

I remembered so much, and he had never heard of it and had no idea how to help (definitely no suggesting of memories there, most of mine occurred spontaneously, AT HOME. I have never been hypnotized or age regressed, all of my memories have occured in the course of daily life).

I spent a year intensely deprogramming myself. I was a head programmer, or trainer, so I used my knowledge to undo what was done to me. I also became enraged as I realized that the abuse I had endured (and done to others) was NOT normal, was used to manipulate me, etc.

My book is based on my memories as an ADULT in this group. I was a perpetrator, and I now regret it considerably. It is my restitution before God as I expose what this group does and stands for. I also wrote it for therapists, to help them understand the group and its methodologies, since it was so difficult to hear from a nationally known ritual abuse center, "we don't know what to do...". I based it on what I did to heal.

Two years ago, my children were on visitation with me and disclosed their abuse to me. I went to CPS, and the case was closed, because the worker said she didn't believe in ritual abuse! My ex came to get the children (he could have put me in federal prison for not giving the children back, since the San Diego court system blatantly states that they do not believe in ritual abuse, and in EVERY case of alleged RA, the children are given to the allegedly abusing parent).

The children confronted him in person. He turned white as a sheet, said, "you really don't want to go back to "family", they said "no". He then fled to California, quit his job, and moved out here and is in therapy for RA and DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder).

My children are also in therapy, and healing rapidly. My now 12 year old son is almost completely integrated, and happier than he has ever been before; my 16 year old daughter has some tough issues to face, such as the sexual abuse she endured. But God has been faithful in His healing work in all of our lives.

I wish that this was just "made up". That it weren't real. But it is. There is too much documentation of this ocurring (I can send you an URL for documented convicted RA cases). My greatest regret is that I was used by this group, after a lifetime of teaching, to be a perpetrator of the worst kind. I used to torture and abuse others, believing that I was "helping" them.

Now, I realize that what I did was wrong, I have asked God's forgiveness. And am committed to exposing this group through my writing. I am also a professional writer in the medical field, was a registered nurse for 18+ years, and currently work as an ESL teacher, health educator, and freelance author (on non-abuse topics!).

I hope this is enough background info, it is the truth before God and men. If you need any other, that won't compromise my anonymity or my children's protection, please let me know.

PS. My younger sister remembers being tied up on a stone altar at the age of 3, with a gag in her mouth, and being raped. She also remembers our paternal grandmother taking her to friends, who used her sexually at the ages of 3 to 5.

She became an alcoholic at age 13, after trying to commit suicide 7 times by age 12. My older brother has NO memories of ANYTHING AT ALL before age 20, his life is a complete blank. He does believe that our father was a perverse and strange man. This brother was cut down from our garage when he was 8, and tried to hang himself.

My oldest brother is on the run, afraid to live anywhere for more than a few months, because he believes they want to "get him." He also tried to commit suicide many times as a young child. This is somewhat corroborating evidence, as well as the fact that both of my children dream in German at night (that is the language they speak in the Illuminati) and have NEVER heard it in the daytime.

Part 2: Who and What is the Illuminati?

by: Svali
A: It doesn't upset me to write on the topic of the Illuminati, I was explaining why I write under a pen name, that is all.

I received a letter recently in which it was alleged that I write under a pen name because I'm a phony, which is not true at all. I am a freelance writer on the side (I write for nursing magazines and publications on health topics that have NOTHING to do with abuse) and understand the need for fact checking, so no offense is taken at your wanting to know my background. In fact, it shows you are a responsible editor, which I admire. I have nothing to hide. My story is 100% true.

I have gained no money for disclosing; I do NOT go on talk shows, I am unknown and prefer it this way. I have absolutely no secondary gain from doing this, other than the medical bills for my children, which means I work three part-time jobs.

This is to answer the skeptics who say that people disclose for: sympathy (I don't want any and don't need it. I made choices and mistakes in my life, and am now involved in restitution); money (I earn $20 a MONTH for my site on Suite 101. I earn $150 to $250 an article when I write on Women's health. Guess which topic I write on more frequently? Yep. Women's health, on completely non-abuse issues. The editors of the Nursing magazines and women's magazines don't know about the other topic I write on, another reason I write under a pen name.) I don't write for fame. Instead, if my co-workers knew about my past, I risk losing my job. I have everything to lose by disclosing, everything to gain by being silent.

But I also know that this kind of child abuse must be stopped. As a Christian, and as one who stands against child abuse, I have decided to speak out against cult abuse by writing articles that expose it. I also know that there are a number of people outspoken on this topic who have published, and they could possibly be back-up information for you. I don't know any of them, since I have no contact with other survivors other than my own family, but it is a possibility.

Anyway, to your questions:

Q: Svali, I think our readers are wondering 'Is the Illuminati a religion, secret society, satanism or is it a combination of it, or something different all together, or more sinister?'

A: The Illuminati is a group that practices a form of faith known as "enlightenment". It is Luciferian, and they teach their followers that their roots go back to the ancient mystery religions of Babylon, Egypt, and Celtic druidism. They have taken what they consider the "best" of each, the foundational practices, and joined them together into a strongly occult discipline. Many groups at the local level worship ancient deities such as "El", "Baal", and "Ashtarte", as well as "Isis and Osiris" and "Set".

This said, the leadership councils at times scoff at the more "primitive" practices of the anarchical, or lower levels. I remember when I was on council in San Diego, they called the high priests and priestesses the "slicers and dicers", who kept the "lower levels happy". This is not to offend anyone, it only shows that at the leadership levels, they often believe they are more scientifically and cognitively driven. But they still practice the principles of enlightenment.

There are 12 steps to this, also known as "the 12 steps of discipline' and they also teach traveling astral planes, time travel, and other metaphysical phenomena. Do people really do this, or is it a drug induced hallucination ? I cannot judge. I saw things that I believe cannot be rationally explained when in this group, things that frightened me, but I can only say that it could be a combination of cult mind control, drug inductions, hypnosis, and some true demonic activity. How much of each, I cannot begin to guess. I do know that these people teach and practice evil.

At the higher levels, the group is no longer people in robes chanting in front of bonfires. Leadership councils have administrators who handle finances (and trust me, this group makes money. That alone would keep it going even if the rest were just religious hog wash).

The leadership levels include businessmen, bankers, and local community leaders. They are intelligent, well educated, and active in their churches. Above local leadership councils are the regional councils, who give dictates to the groups below them, help form the policies and agendas for each region, and who interact with the local leadership councils.

At the national level, there are extremely wealthy people who finance these goals and interact with the leaders of other countries. The Illuminati are international. Secret? By all means. The first thing a child learns from "family, or the Order" as they are called, is "The first rule of the Order is secrecy". This is why you don't hear from more survivors who get out. The lengths that this group goes to, to terrify its members into not disclosing, is unbelievable.

I have seen set ups (oh, yes, they set up fake deaths, etc. ) where a person was "burned alive" to teach the children not to tell. They are told that this is a traitor, who disclosed,and now he is being punished. (The person wasn't really a traitor, and is in a flame proof vest, but the vision of a person on fire and screaming remains with 3 and 4 year old children for a lifetime). And, when they are adults, even if they DO leave, scenes such as this mean they won't tell many people for fear of being traced and punished.

Because I helped create a lot of set ups as an adult trainer, I became somewhat cynical, and have chosen to disclose as a result. Although I do fight intense fear even now at times. Try being buried in a wooden box for a period of time (it may have been minutes, but to a four year old it is an eternity), and then when the lid is lifted, being told, "if you ever tell, we'll put you back in forever". The child will scream hysterically that they will NEVER EVER tell. I was that child, and now I am breaking that vow made under psychological duress. Because I don't want any other children to go through what I did, or have seen done to others.

Yes, the Illuminati are organized, secretive, and extremely wealthy at its upper levels. They are not stupid, or poor people running around dabbling with witchcraft. To see them as this is a huge misconception.

Q: How widespread would you say this group has infiltrated our society in terms of number of people? Are they present in every town or city throughout North America? Do they take or recruit outsiders? And how far does this group go to keep this knowledge secret?

A: I think I answered some of the secrecy above. The Illuminati are present in every major metropolitan center in the United States. They have divided the United States up into 7 major regions, and each has a regional council over it, with the heads of the local councils reporting to them. They meet once every two months, and on special occasions.

A metropolitan region may have as many as 10 to 30 groups within it, and rural areas will often have meetings with other local groups, and report to the metro leadership council. They almost NEVER recruit outsiders, although ocassionally they will buy children or a family from Asia, for example, and keep them under constant surveillance in return for saving their life from the local Mafia. They are threatened with being returned to this group if they ever disclose.

They also have excellent lawyers who are well paid to help cover their tracks. There are also people in the media paid to help keep stories from coming out. I know of three people in San Diego who worked for the Union Tribune who were faithful Illuminists, and who also wrote frequent articles attacking local therapists who worked with RA (Ritual Abuse) survivors. I remember leadership boasting they had "run so-and-so out of town" because of a media blitz, and being quite happy about it.

The Illuminati believe in controlling an area through its: banks and financial institutions (guess how many sit on banking boards? You'd be surprised) Local government: guess how many get elected to local city councils? Law: children are encouraged to go to law school and medical school. Media: others are encouraged to go to journalism school, and members help fund local papers .

Q: Is this the same Illuminati that was created by Adam Weishaupt in Germany?

A: Weishaupt did not create the Illuminati, they chose him as a figurehead and told him what to write about. The financiers, dating back to the bankers during the times of the Templar Knights who financed the early kings in Europe, created the Illuminati. Weishaupt was their "go fer", who did their bidding.

Q: Do you have anymore info about the political goals, if any, of the Illuminati?

A: This article I wrote for addresses it: "Are the Illuminati taking over the world?" You can reprint it, or part of it, as long as you give credit to Suite 101 and/or a link back to the site.

Q: How do Illuminati members recognise each other?

A: Since it is generational, its easy. It isn't hard to recognize one's father, mother, siblings, and neighbors and friends one has grown up with. The Illuminati use telephone trees to contact members when a meeting is to occur.

A month or two ahead of time, leadership council plans dates and places for meetings for different groups under their umbrella. They then call local leaders a week ahead of time (the high priest or priestess). Two days ahead, these people call their head members, who then call the people under them. A person knows their status in the group by how far ahead of time they know a meeting date. The lower in the group, the less they are trusted with information, and the less "lag time" before meetings.

Sometimes, certain pieces of jewelry, such as a ruby ring or an oval emerald, might be worn if meeting someone in a public place at a prearranged assignation. But most accessing and contact is done through family members or close friends.

When I lived in San Diego, my entire family of origin and my four closest friends were all members of the group. It wasn't hard to reach me, to say the least. My spouse was also a member. The Illuminati believe in arranged members, and do NOT allow their members to marry a nonmember. If someone says their spouse isn't in it, they aren't Illuminati, or they are in denial. This was an unbreakable policy.

My marriage was arranged by the local leadership council to another ranking member. I didn't want to marry him, because I didn't love him, and I will never forget what I was told by Athena, my mentor at the time (she held the second position on the council): "That's for the best, then, because he can never hurt you or control you." Or, my mother's timeless advice given when I was 12 years old: "Never fu-- someone lower than you. They will drag you down. Always choose someone higher than yourself."

She was an ambitious woman, to say the least, determined that I would do well in this very political group. I took her advice, and Athena was my lover and protected me from some of the SOBs on leadership in San Diegom especially Jonathan, the head trainer. She taught me his weaknesses and how to get around him, and stood up to him for me. I wouldn't have survived otherwise.

These are NOT nice people and they use and manipulate others viciously. They cut their eye teeth on status, power, and money. I have given all of that up to leave, and am glad to be away from it now, although I do miss some of my friends, and at times I miss the respect of being a leader. But I am learning to live a whole new life without the constant background of "family" monitoring and telling me what to do.

Know what the hardest part of getting out was? The freedom. Not having anyone telling me what to do. I literally went through a period of adjustment, felt wobbly, trying to figure out what I wanted to do. It was hard, since I was used to reflexively checking my decisions with leadership and Jonathan and my husband.

Freedom can be difficult, believe it or not, and took quite a period of time to adjust to. I believe that the inability to deal with it often draws people back in. I hope this information is useful to you.

Part 3: How the Illuminati runs Hollywood

by: Svali
Q: I would think that California would be one of the major 'turfs' of the Illuminati, and I'm thinking specifically Hollywood. What's your inside on this, in regards to film making, symbology, subliminals, the whole scene in general?

A: Oh, boy, do you have a few hours? I'll try to be brief. The Illuminati believe that to control the media is to control the public. This is one of their stated agendas. Remember, finances, media, law, government and education are the areas they targeted as being the best to dominate society.

How do they do this? They don't go to a film producer and say, "Oh, by the way, we're Illuminati members and we want you to make a movie that promotes our agenda". (Remember, they aren't stupid, either). Instead, they will form a small investment corporation that funds movies with ideas that they like. They quietly hire actors and producers and directors and scripts, but they never mention their affiliation publicly or why they are doing this.

Money talks, and especially in Hollywood. If you have money, you can get about anything made, and they know this. They can also channel money into advertising campaigns, etc. for their films (how many Christian films have had major ad campaigns in the past twenty years? Very few. How many occult movies have? I rest my case).

This has been a slow, subtle process because they are patient. They have been working behind the scenes for hundreds of years, and they know that the public is slow to accept new ideas, that it has to be done gradually. (They call it leading in the "sheep" which is one of their terms for the "unenlightened"). And it has been. The number of occult films that has come out in the past ten years alone should make anyone pause and think.

Why so many films with this theme? Why the desensitization of America's youth to the occult and magic? Just look at Saturday morning cartoons. I don't allow my children to watch them, except for "animaniacs" and Bugs Bunny at times. Instead, we rent old classics with Audrey Hepburn and John Wayne. I can send you some articles that did an excellent job of investigating Walt Disney (he was an Illuminist, and Fantasia was used to program children).

Some films that blatantly portray the Illuminist agenda: The Matrix. You could have peeled me off the ceiling when I saw that one. The references to conditioning and the core were so blatant, it wasn't funny. Fight Club: I love Brad Pitt and Ed Norton, and this film is a nod at the covert military buildup going on that the average person doesn't realize. Also, Ed is dissociative in the film, as Pitt's character takes over (notice that the cult-creating military figure is the "stronger" one in the story?).

The Labyrinth: I haven't seen this, but my husband did, and everything he mentioned is pure Illuminati programming stories used with children. Any movies with an occult viewpoint, or that show supernatural psychic phenomena, astral travel, or contact with the spirit world are guaranteed to be part of this agenda. I don't watch them, myself. Saw enough of the real thing to last me this lifetime.

The sensationalization of rituals and other occult insignia on television is another example. Ghost stories. Witch stories. Children's books about Wizards and their training that are extremely popular.

Oh, yes, Starship Trooper. This one had so many cult symbols (the Illumnists have a strong Aryan ideology going, too) that I almost laughed outright when I saw it. I counted at least 100 in it. Someone had fun going tongue-in-cheek with the Illuminist agenda in that one.

Many fine actors and actresses are being used in films funded by these people. Some may know the agenda, most probably do not, as long as they receive a pay check. Some are also Illuminists as well, although I don't know who is. I do know a few, but I don't want to risk a libel suit here.

Anyway, I was too busy training and going to meetings and learning the effects of drugs on people to pay much attention to that part of the group when I was in it, sorry, I don't have lots of famous names in my memories. I lived a very relatively boring life as a teacher and head trainer, and we rarely discussed the media except the fact that it, too, was another tool to bring in "The New Order", which is the motivation for all Illuminists.

I want to address another misconception. That is, the one that the Illuminists know that they are evil. When I was in the group, I and those around me were idealogically committed to the agenda as being GOOD. I thought I was helping others reach their full potential when I was a trainer.

I believed that after years of sweat and hard work, that my intelligence won out, and that I made an excellent leader. I fought Jonathan and others on the council when I thought they were unfair, and stood up for the people beneath me. Others did the same. They honestly think they are doing a GOOD thing, and if you told them it was wrong, or evil, they would look confused.

It took a LOT of therapy and deprogramming myself, doing reality checks with noncult people to realize that it was all a lie. I was devastated. I had dedicated my life to helping others bring in the glorious new order, and then found out it was EVIL and abusive. I went through a period of intense grieving/mourning over this.

Most Illuminists I knew weren't evil, they were deceived. Only the top leadership perhaps were consciously being hurtful.


Part 4: The Illuminati - Freemason Connection

by: Svali
Q: Svali, one of the more important points, which I am sure a lot of readers would like to know more about, is, what is the Illuminati /Freemason connection, as far as you are aware of, given your previous position in the Illuminati?

Q: Was - and is - there an infiltration of the Masonic Order?

A: The Freemasons and the Illuminati are hand in glove. I don't care if this steps on any toes, it's a fact. The Masonic temple at Alexandria, Virginia (the city itself was named after Alexandria, Egypt, and is a hotbed of Illuminati activity) is a center in the Washington, DC area for Illuminati scholarship and teaching. I was taken there at intervals for testing, to step up a level, for scholarship, and high ceremonies. The leaders in this Masonic group were also Illuminists.

This has been true of every large city I have lived in. The top Freemasons were also top Illuminists. My maternal grandparents were both high ranking Masons in the city of Pittsburgh, Pa. (president of the Eastern Star and 33rd degree Mason) and they both were also leaders in the Illuminati in that area.

Are all Masons Illuminati? No, especially at the lower levels, I believe they know nothing of the practices that occur in the middle of the night in the larger temples. Many are probably fine businessmen and Christians. But I have never known a 32 degree or above who wasn't Illuminati, and the group helped create Freemasonry as a "front" for their activities.

Q: What exactly is the meaning of the pyramid on the back of the $1 U.S. note? I'm talking about the pyramid with the capstone detached and hovering above the rest of the pyramid, containing the 'All-Seeing-Eye'. Is this a Masonic or Illuminati symbol?

A: The pyramid and the "eye of Horus" on the back of the dollar bill are Illuminati symbology. The pyramid is an ancient form based on the holyness of the number 3 to the ancient mystery religions (it, not 6, is considered the most spiritual number), and a pyramid was a structure used specifically to call up the demonic, or occult, a point of psychic activity.

The eye is the all seeing eye of Horus (remember the emphasis on Egyptian magical religious practices? The book of the undead, etc.?) and the fact that no one can escape his magical reach. This eye is considered a demonic eye in the group, or the eye of the deity, and in Illuminati mythology is either open or closed, depending upon the spiritual time of year and the state of the person psychically. Young children are given "psychic surgery" where the eye is placed inside, and they are told that Horus will snatch their soul if they ever try to leave, or if they tell, or that the eye will explode. The symbol on the dollar is reinforcement for every Illuminati child who sees one, and the reminder that they are being watched.

The saying on the dollar, 'Novus Ordo Seclorum' also means "bringing in the new order", which is the Illuminati stated agenda. Just think, in the early 1800's, our forefathers already were looking forward to when the new order would be ushered in. Have I mentioned that this is a patient, forward looking group of intellectuals? That Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, FDR, and others were Illuminati leaders? Our country may have been founded on freedom from taxation, but it was also founded on the New World Order just as surely.

Q: How far back in time does the concept / cult of the Illuminati go? It seems to me that they have been around quite some time, possibly since antiquity, guiding, steering and using humanity for their own purposes, operating under different names? Can you elaborate?

A: I was taught that the Illuminati had its roots in the ancient practices that reach into the beginning of recorded time; that the Babylonians on the plains created ziggurats to their deities, whom the Illuminati worship. They were proud of the fact that it was supposedly an unbroken occult line from then until now. The names changed, the basic group was the same.

The ancient mystery religions of Egypt, heart of dark magic were another forerunner, with adherents of Set, Osiris, Horus and Ra; and the Illuminists also believe their bloodlines have come down from the ancient kings of Egypt.

It's hard for me to know how much was cult propaganda, and how much truth is in the claims. The Templar Knights were definitely a forerunner during medieval times, as well as the Rosicrucians and ancient


Part 5 - Illuminati - CIA Connection - Russia & China

by: Svali
Svali: I just want you and your readers to know that I am NOT an Illuminati expert, nor do I want to be. I am only a survivor who was part of this group, in a lower management position locally. I did NOT rub elbows with the rich and famous, although I heard about things that occurred at higher levels (people do gossip even in the cult, they're still human beings).

There are other people who have come out and disclosed. I don't know them personally, but I have heard about them. One is Brice Taylor, in California and North Carolina (she lives part time in both places). Another is Neil Brick of SmartNews, he seems to be very real and believable and a nice person. Others are Caryn StarDancer, of, and Annie McKenna (I think she even wrote a book about her experiences [ed. 'Paperclip Dolls'], it is quite good). There are others, and if you go to the site, there are links to resources and also survivor pages. also has links.

Some survivors have self-published their stories on the web, to help the public know that this is going on. I am only one person among many who has come out to talk about my experiences, and my experiences are limited to what one person did in the Washington, DC area and the San Diego, Ca. area between 1957 and 1995. A person who was doing their job at the time, was very misguided, and who is now heartily sorry for the things that I once participated in.

Q: How do survivors remain anonymous after seeking help? Would the cult not go to extreme measures to find and silence programmers or members that have left the cult? To what ends would they go to shut you up?

A: At Suite 101, and in my book, I wrote a whole chapter on staying safe. Here's the URL for the Suite 101 article: Breaking Free of the Cult. It includes tips on staying safe.

Yes, they do try to recontact people who get out. The first way they do this is through their family (remember they are transgenerational). My mother told me to "come back or die" four years ago, which triggered off lethal self destruct programming inside (I believe she was counting on my coming back, but she was wrong and I almost died. God spared my life). I then had to go in and dismantle it all. When I left, the head trainer was pretty arrogant. He had said I would be dead within 6 months if I remembered, because "no one could remember with what I put in her and live". Direct quote from Jonathan M., head trainer, and I hope he reads this article.

Second, a lot of people get abducted and reaccessed because they : phone their perps, go out alone at night (you wouldn't believe the stories I have heard from survivors who told me they went out at 2 or 3 am to the store, alone, walking down alleys. What were they thinking????).

I helped one survivor get out three years ago, she was being harrassed by the group, and was fighting back, she literally pulled a gun on a would-be abductor and he backed away (he had his gun out) when she asked him, "and who of the two of us do you think is the better shot?" She was an expert marksman). She stayed with me for 6 months, and is free of the group.

They usually do give up after awhile, and get tired of trying to pull people back. I could never live in San Diego, or DC, though. The chances of running into an old trainer or someone I knew would be too great. Instead, having physical distance (people in the cult in this state don't know me or care about me one way or the other) helps. I also have tons of accountability. These people like secrecy, and won't usually act out in public if someone is with people who aren't part of their group. I have heard of people being assassinated , which is one reason that I don't go on T.V., or speak publicly. I live very quietly and anonymously out here. MOST cult recontact comes because the person recontacts, though. The pull to go back is enormous at times, and has to be fought a lot, especially in the first years. To find out why someone would go back to their abusers, read my article on "Trauma Bonding: The Pull to the Perpetrator" at Suite 101.

Q: I want to get back to the Illuminati's political agenda. What is the connection between the CIA, FBI, and other secret services and the cult? To what degree are they infiltrated? And what is the real agenda of these secret services?

A: They are all infiltrated. I don't think everyone in these groups are Illuminists, but a lot of the leadership is. An example: my mother was friends with Sid Gottlieb, who was part of the CIA. The farm I grew up on was only about a half hour away from his home in Culpeper, Va. She also knew the Dulles family. A lot of the researchers in the CIA were part of it, and I visited Langley, Va. at intervals growing up. MK-Ultra was funded in part with Illuminati money. These people use the most sophisticated mind control techniques on their members, believe me.

When I was in San Diego, human experimentation was still going on. Jonathan and I were investigating the effects of certain drugs on inducing trance states and assisting with programming. We would take the data, and download it into a database (oh, yes, the cult is very technologically sophisticated) and then send it to Langley.

Many of the administrators and directors at the FBI are also Illuminists. The CIA helped bring over german scientists after WWII. Many of these were also Illuminati leaders in their own country, and they were welcomed with open arms by the U.S. group. They also funnelled all information they were learning to the Illuminati.

Q: I assume if the U.S. political, banking, and military systems are all fairly well under Illuminati control this would then also be true for Eastern Europe, Russia and other communist bloc countries as well. What does this mean for relations between the West-East axis? Was Russia, or the USSR at the time, ever the adversary it was made out to be, and was there a grand plan behind having Russia as an enemy?

A: Russia was never really a threat to us. Marxism was funded by the Illuminati, and espoused as a counterbalance to capitalism. The Illluminati believe strongly in balancing opposing forces, in the pull between opposites. They see history as a complex chess game, and they will fund one side, then another, while ultimately out of the chaos and division ..., they are laughing because they are ultimately beyond political parties. A top western financier will secretly meet with an eastern or russian "adversary" during those years, and have a good laugh at how the "sheep" were being deluded. I am sharing here what I was taught, and also observed.

When DELPHI met with ORACLE in Europe, (these are the head training groups for the northern hemisphere and european continents) the Russian, German, French, British, Canadian, and US trainers all worked together. In fact, this is one reason why plurality of linguality is valued in the Illuminati. I had to learn six languages as a child, and learn to converse with people from around the world. They are truly an international group, and the group's agenda supercedes any nationalistic feelings. There is also a lot of trading back and forth of members in these groups. A russian trainer might come to the US for awhile, complete a job, then go back, or vice-versa.

Q: China is starting to rattle their sabers and arming itself with nuclear weapons which are pointing at U.S. cities. Is all this occurring according to Illuminati agenda or is there still a fairly large 'uncertainty, random or x-factor' involved that is beyond the Illuminati's control?

A: I have been out for five years, so my information is "old news". But the military buildup of China is part of their plan. There are members of the group who are Asian, and very opportunistic. The Oriental Mafia groups are very much linked to Illuminati activity. The random factor in all of this is how the average citizen reacts. It can't be predicted, although Illuminati leadership will often invent different scenarios, and try to decide how they will act if the ordinary citizens react in an unexpected manner.

I was told that around 2020, the Illuminist agenda would be revealed openly. I don't know if this is accurate, or just propaganda that I was taught, or if they have changed this date since I was in the group.

Q: Svali, earlier you were talking about mindcontrol victims and survivors that have come forward with their stories and publicised it. One of the more recent and high profile stories is the one of Cathy O'Brian [see links at and ].

She seems to be more of a CIA mindcontrol victim, which still sound very much like your own story, in terms of technology and technique. Do you think there could be an Illuminati connection?

A: As I mentioned before, the CIA and the Illuminati are definitely linked. The top leadership in the CIA are also Illuminati leaders. I mentioned Dulles and Gottlieb as men I knew personally as a child and young adult. The scientists that ran the MK-Ultra and other governmental mind control programs were Illuminists brought over from Nazi Germany. That's why you will find that mind control victims ALWAYS speak German or have a dissociated part that speaks with a German accent; they are mimicking their abusers, which is very very common.

You could say that the CIA and the Illuminati are hand in glove companions. I know that the different Illuminati groups around the US also send data on the experiments they do to the central computer at Langley, Va. (oh, yes, human experimentation and mind control experiments are still ongoing, it didn't stop with WWII...).


Part 6 - Ritual Abuse - Mind Control Denial; Bohemian Grove

by: Svali
Q: I just find it amazing that this sort of topic (Ritual Abuse, mindcontrol) gets next to no press attention, considering the amount of evidence available.

A: Here is where I will sound really, really cynical. I'm not surprised, because the Illuminati leadership often boasted that their best protection was that no one would believe what was happening. They also have their own media blitz campaign, one that is pretty effective. For example, a reporter with the initials M. S., who wrote articles on Ritual Abuse (RA) and Mind Control in the San Diego Union-Tribune, was a member of the Illuminati. His articles have almost a patent formula.

1. He interviews supposedly respected doctors in the field. These people with scholarly credentials, the "thinking man's verdict" give a rational, measured conclusion: no logically thinking being could ever possibly believe in ritual abuse, and the therapists that treat victims of it are leading the poor people on, the gullible little dears being oppressed by therapists of a most vicious and mercenary bent.

2. He then exposes the "fundamentalist, narrow minded" "raving" and "mentally ill" people who say that ritual abuse is real, and the "fraudulent" or supposedly mercenary/attention seeking therapists that work with them. His word images create the image of a person practically foaming at the mouth, full of demented ravings, on this side of the fence. He then brings in the heart break of dear, precious families broken apart by the wicked therapists who are "implanting" ideas of ritual abuse in these poor victim's heads.

Wrap up with the supposedly rational, caring, logical and compassionate person on the FMS board saying how tragic it is that this is occurring, that something needs to be done.

M.S. never mentions that the therapists who work with ritual abuse survivors work for very low pay, or sometimes for free, to help these people break free of the chains of a lifetime. He never ever interviews the large percentage (>85%) of the psychological field that has stated that they believe that ritual abuse is, or could be real; instead, he only interviews the minority viewpoint to feed his agenda.

Okay, so now we know that the normal media is quite biased at times.

Q: But, with the evidence out there, why aren't more people concerned about the Illuminati?

A: Because they simply can't, won't believe that this is happening. I am a strong Christian, and in Revelations, it says that right before the return of Jesus, people will be acting as if nothing has happened, that all is normal, in spite of evidence to the contrary. You could show people a video taken of a ritual, and they would declare: "it has to be a fake; people just don't do those things." You can show them a site with pentagrams, buried bones, and other evidence, and they would say, "Oh, that is just teenagers playing around". You can show them photos of underground tunnels near Los Alamos, and they will say, "Isn't that interesting. Must be some government project." They can be shown the scars on a survivor's body, from cigarette burns in childhood, and old lash marks that have healed on their back, and the question would be "are you sure it wasn't self inflicted?"

The evidence is there, but in my opinion, the average person does NOT want to know, and even when confronted with it, will look the other way.

The Franklin case is a point. How much evidence has come out? Or the MK-Ultra documents that have been declassified, shown as real, and people ignore it.

Okay, I'll get off my soap box. But I believe that the media that downplays ritual abuse is feeding into a deep need in the average person to NOT know the reality. In fact, how can a person face the fact of great evil in mankind, unless they have either a strong faith in God, or are faced with insurmountable evidence? We as human beings want to believe the BEST of our race, not the worst, IMHO.

Q: You probably have heard of the 'Bohemian Grove'. What do you know about this? Any connection to the Illuminati?

A: I myself do not know anything about the Bohemian Grove. Remember, I wouldn't have been in a position to have much to do with it. Most of my connections were with Germany. I was never prostituted out, instead I taught others to be that. But I myself never went there, and really don't know anything about it. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful there.

Now, if you were asking about the masonic temple in Alexandria, Va., or the "Institute' in Charlottesville, Va., or a small grove up in Canada with a bronze statue of Baal, I could help you. Sorry I don't have anything to share on this topic. If the Bohemian Grove is occult, though, it probably definitely is known about by the Illuminati.


Part 7 - Illuminati Symbols and Clues; Level of Infiltration -

by: Svali
Q: 'Yes, tell me more about that (german connection, masonic temple, the 'institute' and the Baal statue in Canada, please [see previous article]). What are some of the Illuminati trademarks, symbols and clues that are placed throughout society as their signals (other than the pyramid and all-seeing-eye of Horus), intentionally or unintentionally. Does the Illuminati get careless?

A: To completely answer these questions, you would need my whole biography. I had thought once about writing it, but I doubt many would read it (seriously, this isn't false modesty) and also I really don't believe people will do anything about the Illuminati even if they know. Sorry for the cynicism, but it is based on a lifetime of experience.

The Illuminists don't care who prints this stuff, or if they are "exposed" because they are counting on the majority not believing it, having done a pretty good job with a media blitz campaign (seen any articles in Newsweek or Time lately that addresses this other than as a laughable conspiracy theory? Guess who owns Time-Warner?).

I have heard them laughing about this very thing in leadership meetings five years ago, and I doubt their attitude has changed much since then. If people DID believe this, if action were able to be taken, then I would be very surprised and quite happy.

I'll give you an example. Two years ago, I tried to find a publisher for my book on how the Illuminati program people. I wanted it available for therapists who work with survivors. I couldn't find anyone willing to consider it; they told me it was much too controversial, and "there is no market for this among the general public". Sad, but true.

At the same time, I do believe that God is in control of world history. I have exposed them, and self published my book for free on the web, to let those who work with survivors realize what they have been through. It's hard to help people leaving a group without understanding the traumas both emotional and physical that they have endured.

Okay, now to your questions.

1. The Bruderheist is the ruling council of Germany. It meets in the black forest region, which is considered the center of the earth, and a vortex for psychical/spiritual energy. They are some of the most vicious people I have ever known in my life, and make the Nazis (who they encouraged) look like fun people. They are still there, manipulating people, running banks, and channeling their dirty money to Brussels, Switzerland, and Cairo, Egypt.

2. Canada has a very large Illuminati and Templar Knight community (they are hand in glove groups) that worship ancient deities. The gold or bronze statue of Baal is in a holy grove on a large private estate between Quebec and Montreal. Since I was only 12 years old when I went there, the details aren't quite as clear. But the ceremonies there were full of people in white gowns, lots of flowers and fruits and votive offerings, singing, then the final sacrifice in the arms of the statue.

3. Illuminati trademarks: these are the most cautionary people on earth. They try to leave absolutely NO tracks. Most of the symbology can be seen on T.V. or movies, and include: the concept of a military government ruling. These people are very, very militaristic.

The Phoenix: this is one of their highest military and spiritual symbols. If you see a German eagle, too, this is a huge sign. Certain companies will use a phoenix as their logo, especially red on black, or the reverse, this is a huge sign, since the Illuminati use many resuscitation rituals in their training, where the person is brought into a death, or near death state, then "resuscitated" and told that Baal, or some other entity, "gave them life" and they owe their new life to him and the group. Thus, the phoenix is a huge trigger and symbol.

Butterflies and rainbow signs are big triggers for people who have gone through the Monarch programming (yes, the Illuminists invented Monarch programming with the CIA). Certain types of jewelry are used as triggers. If a person goes online, and plays certain role games (like Ultima) the games are FULL of trigger symbols, such as gem stones. I don't play them but my husband does, and I have told him what the symbols mean. He thinks it's funny since they don't bother him (he isn't Illuminati).

A tiara, or crown with 13 gems, with a diamond in the center, is a symbol of the coming reign of the "chosen one".

Star of David: believe it or not, one of the highest Illuminati religious symbols is a star of David with a circle around it. Called "the great seal of Solomon" it is used at the highest ceremonies to invoke the demonic.

Earth, water, and fire: these three are used in a lot of ceremonies. Check out how many Saturday a.m. cartoons use this concept. You'd be amazed. In fact, "The Fifth Element" movie was based on it.

Greek and Roman mythology and symbols: The Illuminati use a tremendous amount of Greek and Roman mythology in their programming, and most people will have internal structures with a roman or greek temple inside. Lightening bolts, and any symbols from this time will also trigger those with this inside. For more, just pick up any recent Time magazine. Most of the ads are filled with Illuminati symbology. A picture of a head with a computer inside is another big one, symbolizes delta programming, for example.

Q: Take the lead and tell me about issues you may not have covered in your articles or in this interview.... perhaps some issues I have missed in regards to the New World Order/ global government and such...

A: 1. These people are pedophiliacs, they abuse and torture small children and teach them under duress to become perpetrators themselves from earliest infancy. This alone means they should be stopped.

They run the porn industry, along with other groups such as the Mafia. They make enormous amounts of money from drug smuggling, gun running, and human slavery (oh, yes, the buying and selling of human beings is alive and well in the 21st century).

They are involved in evil and money making in the extreme. If a profit is being made off of human suffering, you can trace the chain back somewhere to these people.

2. They have money and lawyers that could blast anyone confronting them out of the water.

3. They have infiltrated our government, and the governments of every country in the world, and well as the judicial and legal systems.

4. The media as well.

5. They run our financial institutions.

6. They are ruthless, ambitious, and will not stop at killing those they oppose. They invented MK-Ultra with the help of the CIA. Still want to take them on? Sorry, just letting you know what they are like.

7. They are working towards bringing in a new leader, who will usher in a Luciferian reign of joy, prosperity, and rewards to the faithful. Almost an Elyssian type paradise. Of course, the brutality would continue, and those who oppose his reign are to be hunted down and converted or destroyed, but the followers will be so happy and content that they believe these holdouts will want to come over to their side. Sounds unbelievable, but true.

Also, people will have new jobs, and leadership positions in this new order, since the Illuminati believe that their children are the brightest and best (remember that lifetime of training and teaching?) and will be the intellectual elite who will rule over the unintelligent, or "less fit". These people really, truly believe this, and almost worship Plato's ideal Republic as their blue print for the new order.

Now, the other side of the picture.
1. They are arrogant, and this could be their downfall. They view the common man as "sheep" with no intelligence. They are full of pride, believe they are invulnerable (see above) and that any press about them is the equivalent of a gnat to be swatted. Arrogant people make mistakes, and they are becoming more blatant and open in recent years.

2. They believe they can overcome God, which is a huge mistake. God can stay the hand of history, and has so far, in the hope that more from this group will get out, because He is merciful.

3. Most of them are wounded, abused victims, who don't realize that it is possible to leave the group. There is a lot of discontent in the ranks, and there would be a mass exodus if the members believed it were really possible to get out (and live). Many of the trainers I knew (I know, wicked, torturing pedophiles) were NOT happy with what they did. They would whisper quietly, or give a look, to show that they disagreed with what they had to do. They would resignedly do their jobs, in the hope of advancement.

Know what one of the biggest carrots offered to those who advance up in the group is? That you don't have to hurt people anymore, and that you can't be abused (it's true: only those higher than you in the group can abuse you, so everyone wants to move up, where the pool of candidates becomes smaller). Of course, people can choose to abuse anyone beneath them, and that motivates some (but not all!) to move up.

4. As more survivors leave, therapists and churches and support people are becoming more aware of the sophisticated mind control techniques used to control members. They are learning to undo it.

5. Prayer can overcome the greatest evil, and my greatest hope is that those I once knew in this group, including the heads and those who hurt me at times, would get out. That they could know that, yes, it is truly possible to leave.

Q: I have seen Clinton do this hand sign on a few occasion, and now Prince William as well. Any hidden meaning?

A: That is an old, well known greeting of one satanist to another. Usually, the Illuminists are a lot more subtle and don't do that publicly.

Part 8 - The Fourth Reich -

by: Svali
Q: The way you describe the Illuminati it sounds like the Third Reich Revival. I can certainly see the Nazi traits in their behavior and goals. It seems like Germany is taking the lead, yet again, in uniting the EU, we see the setting up of a European Army, the Rapid Reaction Force, and a World Court. How is this ultimately going to play out?

A: Actually, they have a name for the New World Order. One of the synonyms used is the "Fourth Reich". I'm serious. Lots of Illuminists have Fourth Reich programming inside. Yep, Germany, and the EU, will dominate the world economy. The US economy will go down for awhile, then restore with the help of Europe.

Q: The Book of Revelation pretty much paints a gloomy picture of how this is going to end, and by what means. How is this going to effect the Illuminati agenda? They would certainly know about the prophecies of old and their own foretold demise. Are they attempting to use prophecies, somehow, to their advantage by way of deceiving human beings?

A: Basically, they are in denial. They believe that history can be changed, and that John's prophetic revelation is only one interpretation of the future. They are aware of Revelations, but don't take it too seriously.

Remember, some of those at the top are ALREADY in power, figuratively speaking. They dominate the financial picture, have immense wealth, several mansions around the world, anything they want, and the (to them) joy of controlling millions of others. They believe their intellect is sharp, and that they will be the "good guys" in the New Order. They are Luciferians, and so believe the Bible is misguided in its assertions.

For all intents and purposes, if you asked them, they would probably laugh and say, "But the new order is already here. It just isn't open yet."

They have been in power for several hundred years, with no lightening bolts from heaven striking them dead. They may even believe that they represent God's will on earth (remember, they serve "God", too, just not the same as the Biblical Christian one).

They would ask back, "how did God allow people to develop such potential if He didn't want us to help them use it? Isn't it a criminal waste of the intellect and the gifts he gave us to NOT develop them, and help people mature into a better race?' They would argue along these lines.

They believe that basically, they are GOOD and doing a good work, even if the means are tough to endure at the time. They are weeding out the weak and unfit, and developing a supreme human being. I know it sounds like hog wash, but they truly, honestly believe this at a core level. To be under the judgements in Revelations, they would have to see themselves as evil, and they don't.

I hope this helps explain a little. I think they would see themselves in that picture as riding in on the white horses, not the dark ones. Such is the power of deception. I am a Christian, myself, and have given up these old beliefs that I was taught in the cult.


Part 9 - Ritual Sacrifices - Demons- Shape Shifting

by: Svali
Q: Svali, earlier on you talked about sacrifices. You are talking about animal sacrifices, right? Give me a bit more details about that, please.

A: I hate to sensationalize things by going into gruesome particulars, but I will share a little.

First, please remember that the Illuminati have SIX branches of learning, and the spiritual (where the sacrifices are done) is only ONE part of what they do. I was in Sciences, and used to make fun of people who specialized in spiritual. Yes, everyone has to go to spiritual rituals during certain high days, but I tried to stay as far from it as I could. It's ugly, crude, and gross, but considered important.

1. The celtic branch of spiritual believes that power is passed at the moment between life and death. They will do rituals with children, or even older adherents, where the person is tied down, and an animal is bled to death on top of them. The belief is that the person receives power from the departing spirit, which "enters" the person. It is also highly traumatizing and horrible to have an animal go through its death throes on top of you. Throw in a few threats that "this will happen to you if you ever tell," and a quite strong impression is made on small children.

2. Opening portals and dimensions: I know, this sounds like stuff from a sci-fi film, but these people really believe that there are other spiritual dimensions, and that to pass into them, first a major sacrifice is done to "open a portal", usually several animals. I have also seen animal sacrifices done to protect from the demonic, or blood used to "close a circle" so the demonic cannot penetrate it.

The Illuminists very much believe in the spiritual realm, and have codified practiced over hundreds of years from ancient occultic rituals. They believe they can control these powers (I believe they are deluded).

Sacrifices are also done on high holy days. I have seen an animal "psychically killed" in front of me, and have no way to explain what I saw. I have also seen human sacrifice, but these were very rare (I believe I have seen two or three real ones in my life, the rest were set-ups).

They really don't want to kill off their children, they want a new generation to grow up and continue the practices. I have also heard of them buying children from other countries, and using them, or the homeless, but never witnessed it myself.

More often, I saw animals used in sacrifices and rituals. Other loss of life, rare but horrible, I saw as a head trainer because of my job. Rarely, a trainer would push a person too far, and didn't check for signs of stress. Especially with some of the newer medications used to create trance states, their meds covered the more obvious signs of trauma and stress (elevated heart rate, rapid breathing, tremors, pupil size changing), or blunted them.

Inexperienced trainers would miss more subtle signs, and basically screw a person up. It is horrible to work with a person, and they NEVER COME BACK. They become a vegetable, or worse, they scream and scream for hours without end.

We occasionally had to "put down" these training failures, by using a lethal injection of air, or insulin. The person was then set up in a "fatal crash" or "fire" to dispose of the body. May God forgive me for the few times this happened and I was forced to act. I so regret it now. A person cannot be kind or sympathetic. And, the trainer always knows that it could be them next on the table, screaming, so they do their jobs well.

Any failures are heavily punished, to say the least. One of my jobs was teaching younger trainers the masking effects of hypnotic drug combinations, and how to recognize subtle clues of distress. Sigh.

Do the failures count as "sacrifices" to a horrible evil that is perpetrated on others? I think so, even though there was no ritual about it at all, it was all done in a traning room with lab coats and needles.

Q: Svali, I have to ask you this: There are stories floating around on the internet about the Illuminati (and other agencies) being run by extra-terrestrials, ET's, in particular a reptilian race, operating from a higher dimension. Any thoughts on that?

A: My answer will probably cause a lot of anger, and it's not meant to step on any toes. Here it goes.

I have never seen an alien or extra-terrestial. I have seen some programming to make people THINK they saw aliens, as a cover story for programming, if they remembered. None of the head trainers I knew, or others on leadership council, believed in aliens, although I never asked them.

I personally believe that the reptilian stuff is actually the demonic at work. I have seen shape-shifting and other stuff because of demonic influence (okay, so here some will say, gee, she believes in demons, that's as far out as aliens).

Well, this is what the Illuminati certainly believe in. They KNOW there are spiritual realities, and think they can control them. Those of a more cynical bent would say the shape shifting was a drug induced hallucination and group hysteria in the context of a ritual setting. I will let each reader decide based on their personal comfort zone. But no, absolutely no reptiles or aliens seen in Washington, DC, or San Diego, Ca. as of 5 years ago, at least I never saw them.


Part 10 - More About Demonic Shape Shifting -

by: Svali
Q: Tell me more about the shapeshifting part, please. I have heard about this elsewhere, and this not just occuring during rituals, some people claim to have seen politicians shapeshift, for instance.

When you say 'demonic' are you talking about a specific 'demon' or type of demon? Is it possible that these demons are really nothing more than some type of ETs influencing the Illuminati, in turn deceiving them?

A: Since you asked about shape shifting, I will share a little more, but it also relates directly to my own belief system. Can't help it, so I will warn you here that I will be discussing fundamental Christianity and the demonic.

After being raised in a group that glorifies the demonic, I became a Christian years ago. I honestly believe that without faith in Jesus Christ, I could NEVER have gotten out of the Illuminati, and one reason I don't fear for my life when I share what I remember is that I believe that God is able to protect me.

His love is the antithesis of the cruelty and evil that I saw in this group. His compassion and infinite caring and purity the opposite of the sexual abuse and darkness that surrounded the rituals. I believe that God has forgiven my past, I have sincerely asked His forgiveness, or I could not live with the memories of what I did to others (such as getting young girls addicted to drugs, so they would prostitute for the cult, as only one example).

I have renounced that lifestyle, given it up, and only Christianity has shown me the love and forgiveness and healing that I have needed for a soul weary beyond belief after seeing the underbelly of life and the cruelty that human beings are capable of showing to others.

In the occult world, I do believe that there are demons, that they are real, and that they have a spiritual hierarchy that the cult hierarchy attempts to emulate on a physical plane.

There are principalities, and lower demons, and they control the portals into other spiritual dimensions that humans have NO BUSINESS entering. This stuff is destructive in the extreme to people.

The shape shifting was usually in the context of an occult ceremony, by those given completely over to the demonic. Humans took on the form of animals for a period of time, or of hideous looking beings, and they were NOT aliens. This was demonic activity that caused a human to see the demonic revealed, and distorted what they saw.

I have seen people go temporarily "blind" because of the demonic influence. I have seen animals psychically killed, by others coming into a circle and directing their "energy" at the animal. These were not aliens, some of them were people I grew up with, and my own mother (she was strange, but not an alien).

I participated in this as well at times, and I'm no alien, just a wounded human being. I believe that the demonic does have sexual relations with humans, because it is recorded in the Bible (Genesis); God also forbids it as being completely wrong.

In fact, the Biblical covenants are the antithesis of the dark covenants practiced by the Illuminati, and I have found a lot of healing by going to Scripture and seeing how God views our world, and how He deals with the Spiritual realm. He is going to win, and is in the process of winning the battle.

I will share with you a dream I had 2 years ago. I was standing in a large room, circular shaped, with tiers of rows. A large emblem of the world with a wreath above it was on the wall, and robed figures surrounded me. I was before the Supreme World Council (who will rule when the NWO comes in), and they were pointing at me and saying I was a traitor and would have to die.

The sense of darkness and oppression in the room was intolerable, I was choking from it. One of the leaders came forward, and said that I would die a traitor's death, as an example to them all, unless I came back into the fold of "family".

I fought the dark impulse to give in to save my life, then in my mind, cried out "Jesus, save me". Instantly, the love and peace of God filled my heart, I was no longer afraid, and I told him, "No, because you are defeated, you just don't realize it. You can kill my body, but I serve a God who has defeated you and everyone in this room."

I woke up at this point, filled with joy. Now you know why I don't mind answering questions about my past. I believe in a God who is greater than the plans of evil men. They can plot all they want, but in the end, their plans will be defeated.

So ask away, any time, and I will share with you all that I remember. I don't mind exposing them, although I do have a lot of cynicism, as I have noted, as to whether people will do anything about it.

While I respect your desire to investigate, and your openess to any possibilities, I can tell you that as a former lifetime member of the group, I saw demons acting, not reptiles or aliens. I would really wonder about aliens who were as vicious and against Biblical Christianity in particular as the demons I saw.


Part 11: Illuminati Proof - Vulnerabilities

by: Svali
Q: Svali, have you ever come forward publicly with that story, or is this the first time?

A:I have never gone into the demonic aspects much, because it is so controversial (ie. your question below!). I have shared this before with my husband, my therapist, and a close friend. I'm not really a "public" person, I've only posted some articles at, to help others who are trying to get out of the cult.

I hate sensationalizing stuff, personally, because it can detract from the real problem; children are being hurt and abused, and the abuse needs to stop. Call it demons, aliens, or whatever, there are evil men (and women) using small children and profiting from their pain. That is why I have spoken out against this group.

Q: I am certain that a lot of readers will say 'Come on, now I know this is just sci-fi, how can this be real?!' and would want to see some proof or evidence to that. What would you say to them?

I would say "go to a ritual, you will see plenty" except that I don't want ANYONE to ever see or be near that type of evil. Spiritual realities don't leave physical marks, but I think it is interesting that throughout recorded history, mankind has written about these type of phenomena.

Could all of our recorded histories be false? Could mankind be a pathological liar throughout the centuries in this area? If a person visits Africa, they will also hear accounts of shape shifting done by the occult, and there, they DON'T dissociate, so you can interview people who have seen it while fully conscious.

In South America, and Asia, this also occurs. How could a world-wide phenomena be made up by groups that had no previous contact with each other?

Does the demonic leave a trail, a mark that I can point to? No. But does it leave an indelible impression on those that have witnessed it? Yes, and even in premedieval times, this type of stuff was recorded.

I didn't take videos or snapshots of this stuff happening, so a person has to decide whether they believe it or not based on oral testimony. I don't really care. I know what I saw.

Q: Also, to wrap this interview up for now, what do you see as the Illuminati's Achilles Heel, their vulnerability? Is there any way to stop them, and a way for humanity to move on and say 'It is finished!'?

At the moment it seems hopeless, sort of like having your fingers in a chinese finger trap, - you know what I'm talking about - with no way out.

A: 1. Their arrogance (I think I mentioned this before) is their weakness. These people think they are untouchable, and this could make them careless.

2. If by a miracle, enough people took this SERIOUSLY and started organizing in some way to stop the Illuminati take over, with prayer and God's guidance, perhaps they could be stopped. I hope so, with all of my heart.

3. Stopping pornography and child prostitution and drug smuggling and gun running would take out a huge chunk of their profits. Maybe they would slow down. But honestly, stopping the above would be as difficult as stopping the group.

4. To be honest, I don't know what could really stop them. I have written about this group to try and expose them, I have gone to the police several times, given videotaped testimony against them in a court case (the interview was with 5 lawyers and took 3 hours), knowing that my ex-headtrainer would be seeing a copy of the video (I thought about smiling and waving and saying "hi Jonathan", but then decided that might be going a little too far).

I have encouraged others in getting out, and helped a few survivors find safe housing and a way to stay out. I guess each person has to do their best in fighting these people, in the way they feel led to. My skills tend to be in writing, so I am using them.

Q: If you have any last comments or think there are some areas we have not touched or topics you would like to take us to, please feel free to share those.

A: If anyone has heard the sobs of a child when it has been used brutally by adults, or the screams of a child psychologically terrorized, they would do anything they could to stop this abuse.

There are children as young as three and four being used in pornographic films, beaten black and blue if they refuse to comply. There are toddlers being forced to watch brutalities, then given a stick and told to go over and hit the victim themselves, or they will be beaten. The child hesitates, it doesn't want to, and the adults hit the child, until the child goes, tears streaming down its face, and unwillingly does what the adults tell it. This is cruelty beyond belief.

To see a slightly older child with an electric dog collar around its neck, shocked when it tries to "escape" and treated as an animal, to the laughter of the adults and older children around it, and the child goes over to a bush and vomits from fear and self-loathing.

These are the pictures that any survivor of the Illuminati holds in their heart, and these are the reasons I will write and write about them to expose them, and why my heartfelt prayer is that they can be stopped. I wish I were making this up, but I'm not. I wish I didn't have these pictures engraved in my memory, but I do.

Q: Svali, would you be willing to answer readers questions or feedback, in form of some future article? I think there may be some questions coming in for you at some point, probably to cover some details about your story.

A: I would prefer that they send their questions to you, and then you forward them, if possible. I don't want to get a lot of "hate mail" because I am writing about a topic that is controversial and politically incorrect to talk about.

I'm sure there will be those who say, "oh, she just wants attention". Well, I get plenty of attention at the classes I teach, with a room full of students, and lots more fun besides. I get attention seeing my NON abuse articles in print, and make money besides (which I don't when I write about this)..

No, I want to expose these people, that's my motivation. Some will believe what I am writing, others won't. That's fine with me. If they feel the need to vent their disbelief, that's fine, as long as I don't get lots of cuss words, or people saying I'm stupid (oh, yes, I get letters like that at times) or uneducated.

Sorry, none of the above are true. I have 2 university degrees. I had to, I was told to by the cult. They don't let stupid people lead.

Oh, and HJ, I won't just disappear on you or recant anything I wrote. You can email me anytime with questions, and I will delightedly expose what SOBs this group is composed of. Oops, that doesn't sound Christian there, but God appreciates honesty, doesn't He? I'm only accurately describing them. I'm still working on forgiveness, as you can see...

Q: Svali, I'm grateful you took the time to share those experiences with us, which I'm sure was neither easy nor pleasant. I wish you all the best, for you and your family. Perhaps more people will read this, and pass this article on to others. Maybe we can stop all of this shocking brutality, child abuse, the Illuminati someday. It's never too late. Thank your very much for this interview, Svali.

* Please forward questions for Svali regarding the Illuminati to


Part 12 - The Top of the Pyramid -

by: Svali
Q: Svali, a very important question I'm sure all our readers are asking themselves is, who heads the Illuminati? Who is the top of the pyramid?

A: Hooboy! Where do I start with this? First, it depends on what level. I would like to draw up a little map of the Illuminati from my memories (which are NOT FOND) of being part of this group. I will also try to fill in some names, but I want to be cautious. If I name too many names, I could draw some nasty fire from people in the group. Here it goes:

I will be doing an upside down pyramid, to show the Illuminati structure, NOT to trigger people (I know the Illuminati use lots of pyramids) but because this is how they have their hierarchy set up:

Level One: Local level: (anytown, USA)

sister group sister group sister group sister group sister group

There will be between ten and thirty sister groups in most metropolitan areas, dependent on the size of the city. The larger the city, the more sister groups. There are Illuminati groups in EVERY major city in the US and Europe. This first level is what is known as the "anarchical" or "low level". It is what most people reporting ritual abuse discuss: a high priest and priestess preside over each group, which also contains a group of two to four trainers, and others with jobs. The sister groups unite on rare occasions, are aware of each other, but each one is fairly independent, and reports only to their leadership council.

Level Two: Metropolitan leadership council:

This is what the local leadership council over these groups will look like. It will also cover scattered groups in outlying rural areas.

Baalim (head) (1), assistants to the head (2) administrators over finances and day to day happenings (4), head trainers (oversee and teach other trainers) (6).

The total: 13 members

The Baalim and his two assistants report to:


The United States has been divided into seven different regions geographically. Each region has a 13 member leadership council that coordinates with the local leadership councils (are you getting the idea by now? The Illuminati are set up a lot like "Amway" or any other well-organized business enterprise with a flowchart of accountability for each member). This council will look something like this:

Head of council (1), Military (2 seats), Spiritual (2 seats), Scholarship (2 seats), Finances (2 seats), Training (2 seats), Sciences (2 seats).

Total: 13 members

The regional councils will represent the different areas of interest and knowledge that the Illuminati pursue. The membership will change over time as members are promoted or demoted.

The seven regional councils each have a leader as noted above, who reports to the:

National Council (The nations in Europe also have national councils, Mexico and Canada do as well, as does the Soviet Republic and China).

The national council will look much like the one above, with this difference; these are influential bankers with OLD money such as: The Rockefellers, the Mellon family, the Carnegie family, the Rothschild family etc. I know I shouldn't name names, but I will.

The heads of the National councils report to:

The Supreme World Council.

This council is already set up as a prototype of the one that will rule when the NWO comes into being. It meets on a regular basis to discuss finances, direction, policy, etc. and to problem-solve difficulties that come up. Once again, these leaders are heads in the financial world, OLD banking money. The Rothschild family in England, and in France, have ruling seats. A descendant of the Hapsburg dynasty has a generational seat. A descendant of the ruling families of England and France have a generational seat. The Rockefeller family in the US holds a seat.

This is one reason that the Illuminati have been pretty "untouchable" over the years. The ruling members are very, very, very wealthy and powerful. I hope this information is helpful. How do I know this? I was on a local leadership council (a head trainer), but I talked to those on regional. Also, every Illuminati child is taught who their "leaders" are, and told to take an oath of allegiance to them and the "New Order to come".

Q: To what degree is the European royalty involved, what is their real pecking order and power structure and what is their U.S.-U.K. relationship in terms of financial/political/cult power. Is the Monarchy still running the show?

A: This is hard to answer, but I'll try. The Illuminati leadership state that they are descended from royal bloodlines, as well as unbroken occult heritage.

See, there were two definitions of "royalty" used. Open royalty that is currently seen now, and "hidden royalty" of royal lineage and extreme occult power. Sometimes the two were concurrent, such as with the Prince of Wales.

I never thought of which country/line held the most power, since I was just a peon busily doing my job. But my understanding was: The Hanoverian / Hapsburg descendants rule in Germany over the Bruderheist. They are considered one of the strongest lines for occult as well. The British line is just under them, with the royal family. Definitely, they rule the UK branch under the Rothschilds in the occult realm, even though parliament rules the country openly.

In France, again, descendants of the royal families are also in power in the occult realm, but the French Rothschilds hold the reigns over all or them. The U.S. is considered lower, and younger, than the European branches. This is why the children of leaders are ALWAYS sent to Europe for part of their training; the education is considered better and the U.S. families want to renew their affiliation with the european forebears.

Germany, France, and the UK form a triumvirate that rules in the European cult. The USSR is considered important, and has the strongest military groups. The USSR has been promised fourth position in the New World Order, BEFORE the role the U.S. would have, because the USSR has been more helpful and cooperative over the years with furthering the agenda.

The descendants of the former ruling families there are also involved in the occult leadership, along with the newer ones. There is no marxism in the cult. China will be ranked after the USSR, then the U.S.. But a lot of the current U.S. leadership will be in Europe when the change occurs, and many have homes there. They will be "changing nationalities" overnight, as it were. This is the little that I do remember. Wish I had been a better student of this stuff, but I was too busy trying to stay alive when I was in it.