by Dee Finney

3-20-01 - DREAM - I was in my 16th St. house with my kids who were all under age 10. I was planning to go down into the basement and clean and do laundry as I usually did.

My son Michael came home from somewhere and said that he had gone to a rummage sale and fell into a well. He wasn't hurt so I let him go do whatever he was going to do, but knew we'd have to tell his Father when he came home.

My husband then came home from work, and he was no sooner in the door, he said he was leaving again to go out to the west of town to Mosely or a name like that to get the stakes I needed for my garden. He said his friend had 30 of them.

I told him that was great. I told him I could get by with a minimum of 10, but 30 was even better.

After he left, I wondered why he had driven all the way home from work to tell me about the 30 stakes, when it would have been so much closer and faster to just go get them from work, but I let that thought go to go do my own work.

My son Michael was sitting on the sofa playing a war game of some kind on the TV. I was curious where the rummage sale was that he fell into a well, so I asked him about it.  He answered, "It was in the coal bin downstairs."

That was a bit bizarre, but I knew that old houses had wells and cisterns in the basements, so didn't give it too much thought except that we had to tell his Father when his Father came home again.

I opened the door to the basement stairs (it's important to know that this house has two stairways ... one that goes down from the kitchen for convenience, and another stairway that goes out into the backyard for easy access to the outside to hang up laundry and not have to traipse through the house with all the wash baskets.)

I had my key to the basement door in my hand, and a metal clothes rack for hanging hangars on. This I attached to the basement side of the doorknob, so I wouldn't lock myself in the basement by accident, and that I wouldn't lose the key should I happen to accidentally lock the basement door.

I went down the stairs and at the bottom of the stairs, I saw a long dog chain embedded in ice on the floor.  I thought this was really strange because I didn't think it was so cold outside that ice could form inside the basement. It was also strange because we never had a dog.  I also saw water dripping down from above, which I assumed was water leaking down through the walls from the roof all the way to the basement.  

I turned right, and right in front of me was a humungous green turtle.  There was nothing unusal about this turtle, no unusual markings, he was just so big and I couldn't figure out how he got into the basement. The turtle was going rather around in circles, always watching out for enemies it seemed and he couldn't see in all directions at the same time.

I wanted my kids to see this turtle, so I went back up the stairs, told the kids about the turtle and got the littlest child by the hand and led him downstairs to see the turtle. The other kids were playing a game and didn't want to be disturbed at the moment.

I took the child downstairs and to the right, I saw the turtle over aways, like on an island, underneath a small table, almost like a short stool. He was under the table, still going around in circles, trying to protect himself from two cats which were taking swipes at him from both sides of this island. One cat was red, and one was black and white.  The red cat was nearest to where I was standing, the black and white cat stood on the other side of the island, behind the table, though I could see it clearly between the legs.

The turtle was really large and I wasn't too worried about the cats hurting the turtle, yet they continually took swipes at it with their claws.  All of a sudden, the turtle decided to defend itself more than it had been and started to nip back at the cats.  The cats were more incensed that the turtle was now fighting back and swiped at the turtle more fiercely. The turtle was really angry now and the turtle took one big nip at the red cat and I saw blood go flying. I thought to myself, "Oh! Oh! The turtle got a bite out of the cat." But it was worse than what it looked like at first glance. The turtle had actually bitten out part of the cats neck and blood was gushing out of the cat, seemingly more than I figured a cat would have inside of it.

I grabbed the child's hand and turned to the right to go up the other stairway, and stepped in the turtle's doo doo which was encased in ice.  It actually stuck to my foot and I couldn't get my foot out of the doo doo or the ice.  I had to stand on the ice with the other foot to dislodge the first foot.  Luckily the second foot didn't get stuck too, and I made a mad dash up the stairs to get away in safety.


Where Is Turtle Island?

The name "Turtle Island" comes from a common Native American legend and is their name for the North American continent. The story tells us that North America is perched on the back of a very large tortoise who has volunteered its shell as a home for the land animals.

Who is Turtle Island?

Though you may not realize it, probably right under your feet! Turtle Island is the name that several native American tribes gave to the North American Continent. In their lore, the earth was at one time all water. The land animals had no place to live until a giant tortoise arose from the water and offered its shell as a home for these creatures. Thus, with North America perched on the back of this large turtle we need to treat our "island" home with honor and respect.

Important Dakota Terms and Concepts

Traditional people call North America "turtle island" because it is shaped like a turtle (Florida is one hind leg, Baja California is another, Mexico is the tail). Minnesota place names derived from the language include: Minnesota (whitish water, land of sky tinted water, etc.), Chanhassen (birch trees), Chaska (oldest son or first born male child), Winona (oldest daughter or first born female child), etc. As Luther Standing Bear noted with reference to males: "In the natural course of events every Lakota boy became a hunter, scout, or warrior. It was necessary that every boy should choose one of the three callings and by the time he had reached eary manhood he was ready, by training to follow the one for which he seemed most fitted. The selection was his. . . . Most young men at some time in their lives tried to become medicine-men. They purified themselves and held the vigil hoping for direct communion with spirit powers, but in this few succeeded" (Standing Bear 1978: 39). Traditional Dakota spiritual leaders are creationists and do not believe in the Bering Strait hypothesis for the peopling of North America nor the evolution of human beings in a Darwinian sense. According to Luther Standing Bear, "our legends tell us that it was hundreds and perhaps thousands of years ago since the first man sprang from the soil in the midst of these great plains. The story says that one morning long ago a lone man awoke, face to the sun, emerging from the soil. Only his head was visible, the rest of his body not yet being fashioned. The man looked about, but saw no mountains, no rivers, no forests. There was nothing but soft a nd quaking mud, for the earth itself was still young. Up and up the man drew himself until he freed his body from the clinging soil. At last he stood upon the earth, but it was not solid, and his first few steps were slow and halting. But the sun shone and ever the man kept his face turned toward it. In time the rays of the sun hardened the face of the earth and strengthened the man and he bounded and leaped about, a free and joyous creature. From this man sprang the Lakota nation and, so far as we know, our people have been born and have died on this plain; and no people have shared it with us until the coming of the European" (Standing Bear 1978:44-45). This creation story, of course, is one of many Native American and European creation stories and contrasts sharply with the perspective of anthropology concerning the evolution of homo sapiens and the peopling of the americas from Asia.

Turtle Island - Ojibway



Interestingly enough, I wanted to go to the hardware store to buy 12 stakes for my new garden the other day. At first I thought that's what this was all about, just picking up on my real life because we never went. Below, I am presenting varous types of stakes ... it seems to me that the Moses/10 Commandments fits the best.

It comes to mind that one has to drive a stake through the heart of a witch to stop her from coming back from death. Or is that a Vampire?

However, people got burned at the stake all the time, Joan d'Arc for One. Here is another:

Michael Servetus (1511-1553), born in Spain, received a degree in Medicine from Toulouse in 1534. He was one of the first European to write about the principle of the circulation of the blood [see earlier work by Ibn Al-Nafis (1213-1288)]. Servetus wrote three important works: 'The Errors of Trinity' (1531), 'Two Dialogues on Trinity' (1531), and 'The Restoration of Christianity'. Luther publicly condemned him in 1539. Servetus followed the views held by the early apostles who belonged to the Antiochene school of Christianity, and he supervised the printing of a Bible in 1540. Servetus corresponded with Calvin for more than twenty years. As a result of bitter conflict, Calvin had him arrested in Milan, and after a quick trial Servetus was burned to the stakes. Servetus is regarded by many as the "founder of modern Unitarianism."

Josue Chapter 23

Josue being old admonisheth the people to keep God's commandments: and to avoid
marriages and all society with the Gentiles for fear of being brought to idolatry.

23:1. And when a long time was passed, after that the Lord had given peace to Israel,
all the nations round about being subdued. and Josue being now old, and far advanced
in years:

23:2. Josue called for all Israel, and for the elders, and for the princes, and for the
judges, and for the masters, and said to them: I am old, and far advanced in years,

23:3. And you see all that the Lord your God hath done to all the nations round about,
how he himself hath fought for you:

23:4. And now since he hath divided to you by lot all the land, from the east of the
Jordan unto the great sea, ant many nations yet remain:

23:5. The Lord your God will destroy them, and take them away from before your face,
and you shall possess the land as he hath promised you.

23:6. Only take courage, and be careful to observe all things that are written in the
book of the law of Moses: and turn not aside from them neither to the right hand nor
to the left:

23:7. Lest after that you are come in among the Gentiles, who will remain among you,
you should swear by the name of their gods, and serve them, and adore them:

23:8. But cleave ye unto the Lord your God, as you have done until this day.

23:9. And then the Lord God will take away before your eyes nations that are great
and very strong, and no man shall be able to resist you.

23:10. One of you shall chase a thousand men of the enemies: because the Lord your
God himself will fight for you, as he hath promised.

23:11. This only take care of with all diligence, that you love the Lord your God.

23:12. But if you will embrace the errors of these nations that dwell among you, and
make marriages with them, and join friendships:

23:13. Know ye for a certainty that the Lord your God will not destroy them before
your face, but they shall be a pit and a snare in your way, and a stumbling-block at
your side, and stakes in your eyes, till he take you away and destroy you from off
this excellent land, which he hath given you.

23:14. Behold this day I am going into the way of all the earth, and you shall know
with all your mind that of all the words which the Lord promised to perform for you,
not one hath failed,

23:15. Therefore as he hath fulfilled in deed, what he promised, and all things
prosperous have come: so will he bring upon you all the evils he hath threatened,
till he take you away and destroy you from off this excellent land, which he hath
given you,

23:16. When you shall have transgressed the covenant of the Lord your God,
which he hath made with you, and shall have served strange gods, and adored
them: then shall the indignation of the Lord rise up quickly and speedily against
you, and you shall be taken away from this excellent land, which he hath delivered
to you.

Isaiah 33 20Look upon Zion, the city of our festivals; your eyes will see Jerusalem, a peaceful abode, a tent that will not be moved; its stakes will never be pulled up, nor any of its ropes broken. 21There the LORD will be our Mighty One. It will be like a place of broad rivers and streams. No galley with oars will ride them, no mighty ship will sail them. 22For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us. 23Your rigging hangs loose: The mast is not held secure, the sail is not spread. Then an abundance of spoils will be divided and even the lame will carry off plunder. 24No one living in Zion will say, "I am ill"; and the sins of those who dwell there will be forgiven.

Isa 54:2  Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; Isa 54:3   For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

In the days of Jesus, condemned criminals normally carried their own cross (the horizontal beam, the ‘patibulum’, not the upright stake) to the site of the execution; the victim was usually stripped naked for the procession and execution as well, although this full nakedness must have offended some Jewish sensibilities in Palestine… Several stakes, at most about ten feet high, stood in Golgotha ready to be reused whenever executions occurred. On the top of the stake or slightly below the top was a groove into which the horizontal beam of the cross would be inserted after the prisoner had been fastened to it with ropes or nails. According to Jewish tradition dating from the second century or earlier, Passover lambs would be hung up on iron hooks and flayed" (Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary).

Mohammed's Qur'an has many mythological ideas about the earth . In the Sura Alkalam(68:1), Allah swears in the whale and the pen, as very important entities . And Mohammed explained in his Hadith what that means . He said that first the throne of Allah was on the water ( Sura 11:7), and Allah created the pen which wrote of every thing that should happen till the end of ages . And he created a whale over which he placed the earth . Then the whale moved and the earth started vacillating . So Allah created the mountains through which he fixed the earth on the whale in order not to vacillate . So the mountains are stakes ( Al tabari 1: 39 and 40)

Mohammed brought many verses in the Qura'n to support this , He said that Allah put the mountains as Stakes in order so the earth would not vacillate (or shake ) ( Sura 41: 9,10 and Sura 21:31 . Mohammed supported his idea in the Qur'an about the earth being vacillating (shaking) and then fixed by the mountains in other Hadith . Confirming his belief in a whale carrying the earth and causing this vacillation .

We see that the mountains being stakes is an old myth of the Indians which found it's way to the Arabs in Arabia . The sacred Indian book Mahabharata ( between 300 B.C. and 300 A. C.) speaks about the mountains as gods that fix the earth so it will not to vacillate . At one time the mountains flew away and the earth started vacillating till the other gods made peace with them and caused them to return as stakes. Also the Persians speak of some mountains as Stakes . This justifies how some Arabs at the time of Mohammed believed and adopted the same concepts about the earth and how it is carried by a big whale fish which the Arabs used to worship . In fact among the gods of Arabia their was the Hut god which means the whale. They believed that this Hut was carrying the earth, and that the mountains were Stakes to fix the earth on the whale divinity . Mohammed copied this perfectly and made of it many verses of the Qur'an .

From: http://www.flash.net/~conflame/quran.htm

Internalizing Three Phases of Religious Behavior

Phase 1: The Moses-Phase: Sectarianism

The Moses-phase of religion is least internal or relatively external, in the sense that the laws of conduct are not rationally justified to the believer but given as Divine Laws to obey. Rituals are followed because of tradition and denominational membership. Sentences of Scriptures are applied to life in a literal sense without much concern for its more interior or spiritual sense. In this fundamentalist phase of religious behavior we tend to be dogmatic and intolerant, and there is a lack of clear separation between cultural and religious loyalty. I call it the Moses-phase because the Five Books of Moses (or Pentateuch or Torah) represent the mentality of the Old Testament as a whole. In this non-spiritual religious orientation, external rituals, prescriptions, and proscriptions are strict and unforgiving, exacting harsh punishment and retribution upon the unfaithful and disloyal. Compliance is from fear or superstition, and is attendant with the hope of reward or merit. Status differences are based on one's degree of compliance and earned merit through strict adherence to ritual.

All religions that are in the fundamentalist phase evolve similar behaviors involving the personal use of holiness that may be attached to some physical object or person. Holy shrines and miracles performed by holy men exist in all major religions on our earth when they pass through their own Moses phase. Intercessionary prayer, either for expected voluntary payments or for charged services, are offered in many Christian churches today, and is a mainstay feature of radio and television evangelism.

Besides ritual and holiness, sectarianism leads to an anti-scientific attitude and orientation that is very harmful for intellectual and rational development. An example is Creationism, which is the rejection of scientific knowledge and rational thinking whenever these appear to be contradicted by a literal reading of the Old Testament.

The Moses phase is based on the emotion of fear, which is external or below the spiritual level.

In the Moses phase we are not capable of understanding the personalist universal and symbolic idea that "neighbor" means "any human being" and therefore one is not allowed to mistreat strangers or enemies. "Love thy neighbor" means family, friend, and all those that we like or share a fate with. That's in the external natural Moses phase. To the extent that we accept the New Testament re-definition of "neighbor" as universalist and personal, namely, excluding no one, to that extent we have crossed into the inner worship, the spiritual worship of the New Testament.

In the Moses-phase we define "neighbors" as those who are of the same ethnic or denominational group ("tribe").

In the Moses-phase "holiness" of a person corresponds to consciensciousness of obeying all regulations.

The central idea of the Mosaic religion was that we are unsavory to God when we commit sins unless we follow God's precise laws about ritual purification from sin. And this meant animal sacrifices, an ancient practice that was widespread in the middle east at around the time when the Hebrews were to conquer the Land of Canaan (or Palestine). The book of Leviticus is replete with very precise instructions about when to sacrifice, what animals to sacrifice, how to prepare them for the kill, what to do with the blood, how to dispose of the carcass, and many other details of timing and accompanying mandatory ritual procedures. To the external worship of the natural mind, this concrete physical proof was required before one could feel forgiven and pure once more.

The idea of God in the Moses phase is a natural idea as shown by the fact that we separate self from God. God is a force outside of us. He may be distant or absent, while natural phenomena play themselves out. We want to counter this distance by doing things that bring God closer, like ritual, prayer and sacrifice. The fact that we have an idea like "God is watching us" or "God knows what I think" indicates that our idea of God is natural and external.

In the Moses-phase of religion, holiness and rituals are viewed externally. The saintly person is endowed with magical powers. There is an orderly hierarchy of predestined positions allocated to each, and one's spiritual status is measured by how much one is endowed.

In our external phase of religion we behave as if we were Moses people. For example, in childhood we believe and fear the omnipresent Eyes of God. We believe that we can offend God by our actions, and indeed this is the appearance given in the Old Testament. We believe that we need to appease God by performing certain requisite rituals like washings and penitence. Sin is an external blemish that can be removed by the Grace of God. We believe in meriting a place in heaven through loyalty and steadfastness to ritual, icon, and prayer.

Those who are unfamiliar with the Old Testament but live in a Western culture obtain this sectarianism from indirect sources in society, all of which ultimately are based on the Old Testament and the New Testament. Those who are from a non-Western culture, and therefore religion, draw their sectarianism from their own religious books and popular teachings. If for instance a native of Bangladesh were to understand the Moses phase of themselves, they need to be told what "Moses" is, and perhaps they need to find a Moses of their own who has done for them what Moses the Hebrew has done for Western culture and religion.

Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock; and he said to them, Hear now, you rebels; must we bring water for you out of this rock? And Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod. Nonetheless much water came out Then Jehovah said to Moses and Aaron, Because you did not believe in Me and honor Me as holy in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you will not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. (Num. 20:10-12)

In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the Tent of Meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness. (Lev. 16:16)

When the LORD heard what you said, he was angry and solemnly swore: "Not a man of this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your forefathers (Deut. 32:35)

But the LORD said to me, "Tell them, `Do not go up and fight, because I will not be with you. You will be defeated by your enemies.'" So I told you, but you would not listen. You rebelled against the LORD's command and in your arrogance you marched up into the hill country. The Amorites who lived in those hills came out against you; they chased you like a swarm of bees and beat you down from Seir all the way to Hormah. You came back and wept before the LORD, but he paid no attention to your weeping and turned a deaf ear to you. (Deut. 43-45)

Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all things that Jehovah hath done in your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; and Jehovah hath not given you a heart to know, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, even unto this day (Deut. 29:2, 4).

I know the figment of the people which they do at this day, before I bring them into the land which I sware (Deut. 31:21).

I will hide My faces from them, I will see what is the last of them; for they are a generation of perversities, sons in whom is no truth.

That "the tables" here signify the external of the Word, is because they are here distinguished from the writing, which denotes its internal. But when they are not distinguished from the writing, then by "the tables" is signified the internal and the external of the Word together, thus the Word in the whole complex (as above, n. 10452). The reason why they are here distinguished, is that the tables were broken, and yet the same words were afterward written by Jehovah upon other tables which were hewn out by Moses. The external of the Word is the sense of its letter. This sense of the letter is signified by "the tables" because this sense is like a table, or a plane, upon which the internal sense has been written.

That the tables which were the work of God were broken by Moses when he saw the calf and the dances, and that by command of Jehovah other tables were hewn out by Moses, and on these were afterward written the same words, and thus that the tables were no longer the work of God, but the work of Moses, whereas the writing was still the writing of God, involves a secret as yet unknown. The secret is that the sense of the letter of the Word would have been different if the Word had been written among a different people, or if that people had not been such as it was

As therefore the sense of the letter of the Word was made such for the sake of that people, therefore those tables which were the work of God were broken, and at the command of Jehovah others were hewn out by Moses. But whereas the same Divine holiness was still within, therefore the same words which had been written upon the former tables were written by Jehovah on the latter, as is plain from these words in Moses:

Jehovah said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, that I may write upon the tables the words that were on the first tables, which thou broke. And Jehovah wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten words (Exod. 34:1, 4, 28).

At that time Jehovah said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and I will write on the tables the words that were on the first tables which thou broke. And Jehovah wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten words, and Jehovah gave them unto me (Deut. 10:1-4).

That Jehovah did not acknowledge that people as His own people (although it was so said for the sake of the agreement of the internal sense with the external), but as the people of Moses, is evident in these passages:

Thy people have corrupted themselves, which thou madest to come up out of the land of Egypt. Go, lead the people unto the place I told thee (Exod. 32:7, 34).

Jehovah spoke unto Moses, Go up, thou and the people which thou hast made to come up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land of which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. And I will send an angel before thee; for I will not go up in the midst of thee, for thou art a stiff-necked people (Exod. 33:1-3).

The like is signified by Moses being put in a cleft of the rock, and not being allowed to see the faces of Jehovah, but only the back parts (Exod. 33:22, 23); and in like manner by Moses, when the skin of his face shone, putting a veil over his face when he spoke to the sons of Israel (Exod. 34:30-35). What the quality of that people was to be, is foretold by Jehovah to Abraham, when it was His will that his seed should inherit the land of Canaan, and it is said:

After Abraham had divided a heifer of three years old, and a she-goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, in the midst, which were for entering into a covenant, a deep sleep fell upon Abraham, and behold a terror of great darkness falling upon him. And when the sun was set, there was thick darkness; and behold a furnace of smoke, and a torch of fire that passed between those pieces (Gen. 15:9, 10, 12, 17).

The Moses, Paul, and Swedenborg Phases of Religions  (This is 130 pages)


1. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."  

2. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image...Thou shalt not bow down to them."

3. "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain."  

4."Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy."  

5  Honor your father and mother"

6. "Thou shalt not kill."

7. "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

8. "Thou shalt not steal."

9. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor"

10. "Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's goods. Thou shalt not covet your neighbour's house.
Thou shalt not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant,
nor his bull, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's."

Moses Law vs.
the 10 Commandments

Compare below Moses Law vs. the 10 Commandments
People often confuse one for the other, but they are very different.
Moses Law ended at the cross whereas the 10 Commandments
God's Eternal Moral Law which will last forever.  

Called "the law of Moses"

LUKE 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord. 

Called "the Law of the Lord"
ISA. 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. 

Called "Law contained in ordinances"

EPH. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Called "the Royal law"
JAMES 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 
Written by Moses in a book
2 CHRON. 35:12 And they removed the burnt offerings, that they might give according to the divisions of the families of the people, to offer unto the LORD, as it is written in the book of Moses. And so did they with the oxen.
Written by God on stone
EXO. 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
EXO. 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
Placed in the side of the ark
DEUT. 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Placed inside the ark
EXO. 40:20 And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark: 
Ended at the cross
EPH. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Will stand forever

LUKE 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Added because of sin
GAL. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Points out sin
ROM. 7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 
ROM. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Contrary to us, against us
COL. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Not grevious
1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Judges no man
COL. 2:14-16 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Judges all men
JAM. 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 
HEB. 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
ROM. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 
Made nothing perfect
HEB. 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
PSALMS 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.



A Viking carving was found on the Isle of Man. It depicts the god, Odin, being devoured by the Fenris Wolf on the Day of Ragnorook, the Doomsday of the Gods at the end of time.  Viking eddas were found in Iceland that told the story of the Day of Ragnorook, the Doomsday of the Gods. At that time, 800 Divine Warriors will come out of each of the 540 Doors of Valhalla (800 x 540 = 432,000).

This wolf was born in the realm of the gods. He was friendly, but as he grew to a very large size, the Gods began to fear him. So they took him to an island and chained him there.

Over the eons the wolf grew larger and angrier and angrier. On the day of Ragnarook, the doomsday of the Gods, the Fenrus breaks his chains. There follows a battle of mutual annihilation.

Odin is said to be the God that inspires war. He is often depicted as being accompanied by ravens.

Note:  It seems that the broken dog chain in the dream could represent the broken chains of the Fenrus wolf. In addition to this clue, in the year 2000, I had a dream which was related to this:  7-9-00 - VISION - I was looking at a newspaper that was green. At the bottom where the advertising was, there was 4 rectangular ads, all of which was Dreams of the Great Earthchanges at the top of each one. The fourth one said, "Dreams of the Vine." and I knew I had to look at those.

That vision was barely acknowledged when above the ads I saw a long rectangle which said, "Fenra the Second" and I knew it was about the Fenrus Wolf at Ragnarook. It was going to happen again.

Being that the broken dog chain was encased in ice could represent that the world has no love in it, as love represents warmth.


Thousands of years ago, in many different cultures in different places on our planet, the Turtle was seen as a "medicine" for Fertility, associated with the power to heal female diseases.

In the Greco myth, Europe, as the feminine power of the waters, the Turtle was an emblem of Aphrodite - Fertility Goddess and the primal Mother of all on-going creation.

For American natives the thirteen patterns on the Turtle's shell are the thirteen cycles of the thirteen moons, the natural rhythms of the planet, the Fertility periods of females.

In Asia, according to the Hindu, the land on which they lived was the back of a huge "Mother Turtle", floating in a vast primal sea.

In W. Africa's tribes the Turtle originated ju-ju and appears in Fertility rites, representing the feminine to the serpent's masculine power.

Turtle symbolism: "Eternal Mother", "Divine Mother", "Womb of all", "Protector of Mature Wombs that turn into Life". Fertility mythological Goddesses were sitting on a Turtle in a childbirth position.

Turtle represents the feminine Energy of water. The magical spawn of sea Turtle is a mystery to science. Female sea Turtle returns to her birthplace after 15 years of wandering the seas.

The fertile Turtle (almost Turtle the Fertle by Dr. Seuss LOL) is also an image of determinedness, patience and ability to navigate through life. Turtle shell protects you like the protection of Mother Earth.

On the equinoxes, the Sun crosses a center point and makes an exact 90-degree angle directly over the Pyramid of Ku'Kulkan (El Castillo) at the sacred site of Chichen Itza on Mexico's Yucatan peninsula (a place that represents the turtle's head on the continent known as Turtle Island or North America).

The Zuni, as most Native Americans, know almost all regions of the earth as "Turtle Island". Therefore the turtle fetish is considered to represent the living spirit of Mother Earth herself. Legend has it that the turtle navigates in the water and on land through its psychic connections with Mother Earth. Symbolism: Longevity, Loyalty, Peace.

Turtles even today has a strong symbolism meaning longevity and strength. In the Hindu mythology the tortoise supports on its back an elephant which, in turn, supports the world.

Mohawk people say that the earth lies on a turtle's back, this is a symbol for the continent of North America, a continent that was at one time inhabited solely by native people.



Interestingly enough, when the news came on after I had this dream, one of the commentators began talking about the 'black hole' of politics.  That about says it all.

In our house, the coal men used to bring the coal and pour it down a chute into the basement where we had a coal bin where my father would shovel the coal from there into the furnace all winter long to keep us warm.

Wells, springs, rivers, and earthen mounds are some of the magical places that border with or co-exist in the other world. In these places, magic is much more prevalent and sometimes even time passes differently there.

If we remember, Alice in Wonderland fell down a well:  

"The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and then dipped suddenly down, so suddenly that Alice had not a moment to think about stopping herself before she found herself falling down a very deep well. "

The / reality / well symbolism / other world business has clear Freudian overtones. People in a "dream state" probe their subconscious and relate past experiences to their present life (= going down the well).

I'm hoping that falling down the well in the coal 'bin' doesn't have anything to do with Osama Bin Laden, the Arabic terrorist.  According to what I read, Kosovo and that area are rich with coal mines, gold mines, gem mines, etc.

A Christian preacher stated this:  If we are insensitive to the sufferings of others we ultimately lower the ceiling on our own potential, allowing needed blessings to escape. This makes it impossible for the Christian to climb out of the coal bin of the ordinary. Unless the Christian can connect with other members in the body of Christ their isolation sterilizes productivity. Our sensitivity to others must be woven into the fabric of our daily lives. Otherwise, we are living on banks of river and washing hands in spittle. Any one you help resurrect today may be the person who will pick you up in the future. But, if you do not reach out to them when they are in need, they may not be present when you need them. The blanket assumption that someone will be there to pick you up when you need them is a flawed assumption. That is why the scripture exhorts to "cast your bread upon the waters, for you shall find it after many days. The contribution of each individual is so substantial that any who fall by the wayside leave a void nearly impossible to replace. Every Christian should accept the responsibility to reach out for those who stumble and help them get back on their feet again. God uses people, not angels to minister to each other. When one is hurting another reaches out and helps them to rebound into position--and the momentum continues. It's a teeter-totter cycle that helps bend the laws of probability in your favor. It is human nature that we each will click with some people and class with others, but the likeness of Christ is manifest when we love those with whom we clash.

From: http://www.popministries.com/devotion.htm



Generally speaking, a table represents earth itself. In the dream, the turtle was turning around underneath the table, on the island, trying to defend himself.  The symbolism of the basement represents the subconscious mind.

Revelation (or Apocrypha, which means the same, not to be confused with apocalypse) tells mostly of the final days of this present system on Earth. The Bible tells us that until the days of judgement, the Earth will be ruled by Satan, the deceiver of mankind. After the war between Michael and his angels and Satan and his demons, those righteous believers will be resurrected to a rejuvenated Earth and will live forever with Jesus as King.

Note that the son Michael is upstairs playing war games on the television screen. Also note that the last two wars have been fought on television, both the Kuwait war and the Kosovo war.

According to tradition, Arthur, when a boy of fifteen, was crowned King of Britain, in A.D. 516. Soon after his ascension to the throne he founded the Order of the Knights of the Round Table at Windsor. Thereafter the Knights met annually at Carleon, Winchester, or at Camelot, to celebrate Pentecost. From all parts of Europe came the brave and the bold, seeking admission into this noble order of British knighthood.

Nobility, virtue, and valor were its requirements, and those possessing these qualities to a marked degree were welcomed to King Arthur’s court at Camelot. Having gathered the bravest and noblest Knights of Europe about him, King Arthur chose twenty-four who excelled all the others in daring and integrity and formed of them his Circle of the Round Table. According to legend, each of these Knights was so great in dignity and power that none could occupy a more exalted seat than another, so when they gathered at the table to celebrate the anniversary of their foundation it was necessary to use a round table that all might occupy chairs of equal importance.

While it is probable that the Order of the Round Table had its distinctive rituals and symbols, the knowledge of them has not survived the ages. Elias Ashmole, in his volume on the Order of the Garter, inserted a double-page plate showing the insignia of all the orders of knighthood, the block set aside for the symbol of the Round Table being left blank. The chief reason for the loss of the symbolism of the Round Table was the untimely death of King Arthur upon the field of Kamblan (A.D.542) in the forty-first year of his life. While he destroyed his bitter enemy, Mordred, in this famous battle, it cost him not only his own life but the lives of nearly all his Knights of the Round Table, who died defending their commander. MPH



Though cats are beloved pets in many families, unless they are your own cats, cats in dreams are generally bad news. They are irritations to say the least.  In this particular dream, the cats are attacking the turtle, first taking small swipes with their claws at the turtle, then getting more violent, until at last the turtle has enough of this and bites the red cat and eventually kills it by biting it in the neck until it's blood flows.  The black and white cat, all this time is taking swipes at the turtle from the back side while the turtle is trying to defend itself from the red cat.

If you look at this dream as a political event in the symbolism, the color red has always represented the USSR or Russia. The black and white cat represents the country of Dalmatia, where the Dalmatian dog comes from, which Nostradamus has spoken of.

See how the Nostradamus Quatrain fits this situation:

II.84 Severe drought preceding WW III, Russia invading Europe via Austria.

Entre Champagne, Sienne, Flora, Ostie
Six mois neuf jours ne pleuvera une goutte
L'estrange lanque en terre Dalmatie
Courira sus, gastant la terre toute

NOTE: Entre: between, among; Sienne: Siena, 100 miles north of Rome; Flora: Florence, close to Siena; mois: month, neuf: nine; pleuvera (pleuvoir): to rain; goutte: drop; estrange: strange; langue: language; Dalmatie (Dalmatia): ancient Austria; courira (courire): to run over, chase; sus: upon; gastant (gater): to damage, to foil.

Among many northern Italian cities For six months and nine days shall not rain even a drop Strange language shall be heard on Austrian soil Run it over, and ruin the land totally

COMMENT: Severe drought shall occur in the southern Europe and then the invasion or the WW III shall begin with Russian troops amass Italy through Austria.  Right now, all the small wars are being fought in this area,

WWIII Prophecies of Nostradamus

Dreams of War

More information on the prophecies of Nostradamus are these from:


Hungary is perched precariously above the mess we now know as Yugoslavia and the former warring nations of Bosnia and Croatia. Northern Yugoslavia (Vojvodina) has a large Hungarian minority seeking autonomy from Serbia.

Hungary is now a NATO member, as is neighbouring Poland and the Czech Republic. Russia feels threatened by these three countries. They are on Russia's 'near abroad' -- a fancy way of saying the former Soviet East Bloc.

In the event of a NATO war with Russia, Hungary will be in the front line of staging operations. Poland's very large army will bear the brunt of the responsibility of defending the three. However, according to Nostradamus, Germany will inevitably be forced to take on a large military role aiding Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic.

Does Nostradamus really talk about such things? He certainly does. He mentions Hungary by name in a number of his quatrains and refers to Hungary, Yugoslavia, Bosnia, and Croatia together as 'Pannonia' -- a former Roman colony.

Unfortunately, Nostradamus does not provide astronomical dating clues in any of the quatrains dealing with Hungary or 'Pannonia.'

Quatrain 2.90 says that the 'rule in Hungary will change' and 'the law will become 'bitter.' The chief city, Budapest, will come under attack (like Grozny is now). At that time 'Castor and Pollux' will become 'enemies in the field.'

Some commentators have long believed that 'Castor and Pollux' is some sort of obscure astronomical dating clue. It is not. Others insist that, because the two main stars of Gemini represent the heavenly brothers, the twins, that this is Nostradamus' way of describing pro-Soviet Hungarians at war with rebel Hungarians during the revolution of 1956. Possible, but a rather weak rendering in my opinion.

My read is that Castor and Pollux are two major powers who will battle for the future of Hungary. Castor and Pollux MUST be Russia and the United States.



This is pretty much self-explanatory.  We all know what doo doo is, and the ice again is lack of love. The fact that I stepped in it is again self-explanatory, and it took two feet on the ice to extract myself from it. Fortunately, I was able to run upstairs to get away from this violent scene.


Dream Symbology Cosmology

There are many symbolic meanings in stories, films, and events. This is of great interest to me. My own path led to similar conclusions.

I’ll list a few events that seem to carry dream symbolism, with a brief interpretation of the possible meaning. Each one, has a background involving actual dreams and/or coincidences.

1) The destruction of the dinosaurs by a great meteorite that struck at the Yucatan 65 million years ago, leaving a perfect ring of Sacred Cenote holes. There is a symbolic correlation to human spiritual evolution; the “death” of the old ways of being. Important information and/or events will happen at the Yucatan in the future that will help transform the world. There may be a great crystal underground formed by the meteorite that functions like a radio crystal oscillator affecting the earth’s energy grid through naturally sited underground quartz, and this affects DNA, which is shaped like a radio tuning coil. But, this part may be symbolic.

[see Arthur Young’s musing of DNA as biological EM tuner information interface in his Reflexive Universe - Evolution of Consciousness, ed.)

2) The sinking of the Titanic in 1912, and the many psychic premonitions surrounding the event, primarily the book Futility, which predicted the event in exacting detail. This was a symbolic event, a portent of great changes to come; a period of stress followed by a great change. The stress began on a global level in 1914, with World War One. As some have pointed out, this was predicted by the dream of Nebuchadnezzar in the Book of Daniel. The dream was of a great tree that was cut and banded, causing a period of insanity for seven years.

3) The great leap in the long jump by Bob Beamon in the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City, and the first moon landing. These were symbolic events foretelling the great evolutionary leap for mankind. The moon is symbolically related to evolution and the feminine aspect. The alien moon, Saton, which triggered the destruction of the planet Janos. The two-faced god is related to duality symbolism, which some say will be eliminated in the future change. My experiences indicate that it is a balancing and bonding, rather than an elimination of the male/female dual principle.

4) The “Earthquake” World Series of 1989. This is related to the Nostradamus quatrain C9 Q83, and Ezekiel’s vision of the Four Living Creatures. (Ezekiel 1:1-25 and 3:12,13) Baseball itself is symbolic; its invention was probably inspired from on high. The bases and pitcher’s mound, and the 5 players assigned to them, are a quintuplet set, as found in crop circles and ancient glyphs. They mark the points and apex of a pyramid. The outfielders and shortstop correspond to the “wheels” in Ezekiel’s vision, and to the four faces of the pyramid. The meaning seems to be the Logos of Man at the fourth/heart chakra level, the Word becoming flesh.

Here is a list of a few of the films I feel are significant in their symbolism:

A - Field of Dreams, Angels in the Outfield, A League of Their Own, and other baseball films.

B - 2001 : A Space Odyssey. An unknown intelligence initiates the evolution of man by helping the ape use a tool. When the obelisk is discovered on the moon many years later by descendants of the ape, it sends a signal that it is time for the next big step in evolution. The astronaut, Dave, is transformed into a baby in a bubble and sent back to earth, symbolizing the next great leap.

C - Teen-Age Mutant Ninja Turtles. This seems to be symbolically related to our warring, divided status in the time cycle we are in, an to the special role of the United States. After the Renaissance a new world was discovered, where people of all nations came to live as one. This is represented by the turtles with masks of four colors. The rat, Splinter, represents the spiritual apex. In the nuclear age, the teen-aged nation mutates, becoming stronger than the parent. A teen-ager reflects back to the parents their own beliefs and ways, both good and bad. The turtle nation can kind and caring, but becomes a giant killing machine when threatened. The Sioux call us the Turtle Nation, and in Black Elk’s vision he struck the fighting Blue Man in the heart, turning him into a harmless turtle. The Taoist Nu-Kau, the half reptilian sovereign over the fifth element, wood, defeated the rebelling prince in a battle that destroyed heaven’s pillars. She set them straight once again by using stones of five colors and planting the feet of a giant turtle at the northern, eastern, southern, and western extremes. The turtle movie seems to symbolize this role of America, where a crazy, warring period will lead to a unity. We will show someday that the races can “get along,” and the world will follow the example. In Revelation, Babylon is thrown down with violence.

D - Phantom of the Opera, and the songs from the modern musical version by Andrew Loyd Webber. Dreams seem to support the old cliche that the world is a stage. We don our garments of flesh here to act out a certain life for a purpose. Some say the phantom represents the unconscious mind. A voice in my dream said, “The Phantom of the Opera is God.” This seemed a bit outrageous, but it was related in my mind to Revelation 17:17 - “...for God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and giving over to their royal power to the Beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.” It was also related to a modern interpretation of Michelangelo’s painting of God reaching to touch Adam’s finger. This is said to be giving rational intelligence rather than life, because Adam is already alive in the painting, and God is shown inside a structure shaped like a human brain. Andrew Webber’s song goes, “The Phantom of the Opera is there, inside your mind.”

A dream/coincidence strongly suggested that the song, “The Power of the Music of the Dawn,” is related to the Angel in Revelation 7 who comes out of the eastern sun to mark the foreheads. This refers to dreams, which are remembered at dawn, at the dawn of a new age.

I have a few hints as to possible meanings. I had a dream where I saw a volt meter get hooked onto an overhead conveyer hanger. It was pulled up to a second story and started to cause sparks to fly from some electrical wires. After recording the dream, more news came on TV about the Simpson case. It struck me that the volt meter in the dream was clearly a brand called a Simpson. A short time later, I happened to review some of my past notes, and came to a dream I had about three years ago of a voltage reading being taken from wires with a Simpson meter.

This could indicate being lifted to a higher level, and a stress involved. In my symbols, a generator is similar in meaning to the Goddess Mother. She generates, or gives birth to our reality in each moment. We are the equivalent of the motor, being driven by the generator. The Simpson meter would then be an instrument for measuring the generated energy. This connects, in a way, to the “rod” or “reed” given to St. John in Revelation 11:2. He is told to measure the temple and altar with it. According to Swedenborg this means to “discern” the truthfulness (or untruthfulness) of the church. I think it could also refer to analyzing one’s own beliefs and actions, and/or those of the culture in which one lives.

Black people in dreams sometimes seem to indicate “invisible,” that is, spiritual beings or parts of ourselves. I have recorded a few dreams which indicate that black people may represent the blue people of eastern religions, such as Krishna.

Interestingly, Kali is sometimes depicted with her head cut off, or with a garland of human heads. I believe this symbolically represents a change in the way we think/believe. I can’t explain it briefly, but various dreams-coincidences seem to be related to this symbolism. Kali matches perfectly with the “harlot” or Revelation 17. This seems to represent the energy in our divided, warring time cycle, which is a judgment or karma cycle. We are nearing the end of the Kali-Yuga, I think. Philip K. Dick suggests this in VALIS, by saying we are going from the Age of Iron to the Age of Gold. The Kali-Yuga is the Age of Iron in the Hindu tradition. The Age of Gold was the first one, which seems to be akin to the Garden of Eden.

Isaiah 54:6 speaks of a wife of youth cast off. A dream of mine hinted that this may represent the harlot/Kali. Blavatsky said that Vishnu comes on a horse as the final avatar to defeat the evil forces for the final time. I believe this is related to the “vehan” vehicle. We rid ourselves of Kali at that time. In VALIS, the good twin gets rid of the female bad twin, who broke out of the embryonic sack prematurely.

Various parts of the Bible speak of those who sleep with the daughters of the harlot, or who have become drunk on her wine. This is the cup of fury drained by Babylon. Kali arouses feelings of “tamasisk,” which means “fury.” In depictions of Kali, she is shown seated or standing upon a reclining, copulating couple. The male is blue, wears a crown, and lies on his back. The female is white-skinned, and is on top of the dark male.

So, this is my guess. O. J. and Othello represent the blue male aspect. Nicole Simpson and Desdemona represent the white female aspect. The white woman aroused feelings of fury in the dark man. The harlot is the one who makes desolate, and this fits with O. J.’s condition now. The gnostics said we are in the black iron prison. The prisoner, hostage, or slave symbolism is expressed many times in the Bible, and often shows up in dreams. It seems to refer to negative, angry, violent thinking/actions which result in circular cycles or descending spirals. We imprison ourselves in these cycles, not knowing that we can become free by changing our ways.

As I see it, this symbolism refers to the “problems” we all face in our individual life paths, and to larger scales of this. They are actually challenges set up for a purpose. The Simpson case seems to be a drama about these issues.

I hope you see some “possible paradigms” in the material I have presented here. One way of looking at it is that any paradigm, myth, or theory is possible as an actual reality. In other words, we humans can create any reality based on our myths, or beliefs. It may not be an ultimately “true” reality, but it is an existence, or stage-play, for a time. It could be that there is no absolutely “true” paradigm, and that we simply create realities based on our beliefs, or create civilizations out of our myths. If this is indeed the case, why not promote one that is more positive and pleasurable than the one we hold at the moment?

Best of luck in your own myth-making,

Joe Mason

Friday, March 23 , 2001

Moscow expels 50 US diplomats in tit-for-tat move

MOSCOW, March 22 (AFP) -

An escalating spy row between Russia and the United States took a dramatic twist Thursday when Moscow retaliated against a US move to expel 50 diplomats by throwing out the same number of Americans.

In a lightning counterstrike, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov announced that the Kremlin was expelling the US diplomats based at the US embassy in Moscow.

Questioned about the timing of the expulsions, Ivanov told the CNN television news network: "Moscow will give an adequate answer. You will not have to wait long."

The foreign minister justified the tit-for-tat measure by saying that Washington was to blame for the latest chill in relations between the two former Cold War rivals.

"Russia has always only protected its national interests. Therefore it is not our choice but we are forced to take adequate measures, adequate to the solution made by Washington, which does not comply with the mutual interest of Russia and the United States," he added.

Moscow would match exactly the number of Russian diplomats expelled from the United States, CNN quoted Ivanov as saying.

Earlier Thursday, sparking an official Russian protest, Washington had confirmed that four diplomats were being expelled immediately and another 46 would be asked to leave by July 1.

The Russian foreign ministry responded angrily by threatening to take "adequate" measures over the US decision to throw out dozens of Moscow's diplomats for alleged spying.

Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Avdeyev scathingly accused the new Republican administration in the White House of being stuck in a Cold War time warp.

The row is the most serious between the two countries since the height of the Cold War and was the result of US "spy mania," Russian President Vladimir Putin's top foreign policy aide said.

Russia has already drafted a list of US diplomats serving in Moscow whom it could expel as a tit-for-tat gesture, ITAR-TASS said Thursday.

"The list of people who can be expelled from Russia has already been prepared," a top Russian secret service official told the news agency.

He stressed that Russia only wished to expel those diplomats who were known to be spies.

"But if the Americans made a mistake and threw out some diplomats who had nothing to do with the espionage services, then the Russian side can also make the same mistake," the unnamed official was quoted as saying.

Ivanov had earlier said that Washington's decision "prompted nothing but disappointment. There was no basis for this expulsion."

"This step cannot be qualified as anything but political," Ivanov said in televised remarks.

Only four of the Russians ordered out this week were directly implicated in the case of Robert Hanssen, a top FBI agent whose recent arrest on suspicion of spying for Russia triggered the latest diplomatic spat.

Hanssen's arrest has shaken US-Russia relations in recent weeks, with some diplomatic sources referring to him as one of the most damaging US spies that the Kremlin has ever managed to recruit.

US President George W. Bush declared Thursday he had taken the "right decision" in expelling the 50 Russian diplomats but sought to allay fears that the spiralling dispute would harm relations with Moscow.

"The actions we took yesterday speak for themselves," Bush told reporters. "I'm confident that we can have good relations with the Russians. There are some areas where we can work together."

"We took the right decision yesterday," said Bush.

The US move has ignited the fiercest espionage row between the countries since the Soviet Union collapsed.

In 1986, then president Ronald Reagan expelled 80 Soviet diplomats.

Avdeyev said the United States was to blame for the latest espionage scandal, which was "completely political."

"The new administration that has come in, this team's attitudes were formed during the period of confrontation between the United States and Soviet Union, and the team has been out of office for the past eight years.

"They don't know today's Russia," Avdeyev added.


Thursday March 22 3:13 PM ET

U.S. Ousts 51 Russian Diplomats

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush (news - web sites) sought to keep U.S. relations with Russia on an even keel Thursday after ordering the ouster of more than 50 diplomats suspected of undercover intelligence activities.

In Moscow, Russia's foreign minister said the expulsions, the most since the Cold War, were political. But Bush said he was simply dealing with facts and the two nations could maintain a good working relationship.

Six Russians assigned to Moscow's embassy in Washington were directly linked by U.S. officials to the case of Robert Hanssen, a longtime FBI (news - web sites) agent arrested a month ago on charges of selling secrets to Russia. Two of the six have already left the United States; the four others must depart within 10 days.

At the same time, Bush ordered the Russian diplomatic contingent sharply reduced, officials said. A total of 46 Russians, at the embassy and at consulates across the country, have until July 1 to leave, they said.

``I was presented with the facts. I made the decision. It was the right thing to do,'' Bush said.

It's a long-standing practice for U.S. and Russian intelligence officers to be posted in overseas embassies as diplomats. But after a gradual reduction in the Russian contingent, a buildup began in 1997, and the Bush administration decided to reverse it, inspired by the Hanssen case.

``I'm confident we can have a good relationship with the Russians,'' Bush said after addressing the National Newspaper Association. ``We've got some areas where we can work together.''

Along the same lines, Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites), his assistant for national security, called the expulsions an isolated incident.

``We expect to have a fruitful and beneficial relationship with Russia,'' Rice said. ``We see Russia as a potential partner in many parts of the world and we look forward to getting on with a positive agenda.''

Reducing the compliment of disguised intelligence agents ``has been an issue that has been on the agenda for some time with the Russian government,'' Rice said.

Asked if the Kremlin might retaliate, the White House official replied: ``I certainly hope not. This should go to the end of it.''

In Moscow, Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov left no doubt it was not the end of the matter.

``Naturally, as it has before, Russia will firmly and steadfastly defend its national interests and will adequately respond to this unfriendly step by the United States,'' Ivanov said in Moscow as he somberly read a statement on government-controlled ORT television.

``At the same time, the Russian leadership assumes that in Washington, the policy and logic of those who try to push mankind and the United States (back) into the epoch of the Cold War and confrontation won't prevail,'' he said.

Complaining about the public way the Bush administration went at the situation, Ivanov said, ``If anyone had any questions or doubts, this could easily have been settled along ... special channels and by special contacts.''

Sen. Bob Graham , R-Fla., vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he assumed Russia would make a request ``for some of our most experienced to leave.''

``That is the expected way in which these counterintelligence incidents work when they go sour,'' he said.

Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) called in Russian Ambassador Ury M. Ushakov on Wednesday to inform him of the expulsions and then talked by telephone to Ivanov. John Beyrle, who heads the State Department office that deals with Russia and other former Soviet republics, had a follow-up meeting with the ambassador Thursday.

``We consider this matter closed. We have important interests in maintaining cooperative and productive relations with Russia, and we intend to continue working to advance those interests,'' Powell said.

And while Powell and other top officials publicly indicated they considered the dispute to be over, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said, ``The department made clear to the Russian side that any other Russian officials who may be subsequently implicated in the Hanssen case will not be welcome in the United States.''

And, Boucher said, ``we have made clear to the Russian side the need to take actions to address our longstanding concerns about the level of their intelligence presence in the United States.''

A senior U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the six Russians ordered expelled were ``intelligence handlers'' in the Hanssen case.

In Moscow, a scheduled meeting between Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov and U.S. Ambassador James Collins was put off after the American envoy was called to the Foreign Ministry early Thursday morning, Zyuganov's spokesman said.

A top foreign affairs aide to President Vladimir Putin expressed regret over the accused spies' expulsion.

``Any campaign of spy mania and searching for enemies brings deep regret, and this is a fallback to the Cold War epoch,'' aide Sergei Prikhodko said, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency.